Cure #2 ?

black · Jun 15, 2013

Originally Posted by S2K9K [h3]edited post[/h3]

S2K9K
Yesterday at 8:39 pm

Black,
I just wanted to let you know I had to edit one of your posts and delete a link. As per @TulsaJeff and our User Guidelines, offsite links are not permitted to be posted on this forum.
Here is a link to the edited post:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/139323/stx-turboforce-3000-series-grinder#post_1074283
Thank You for understanding,
Moderator Team

That's OK, edit my posts as you like

solaryellow · Jun 16, 2013

Cure #2 is a long term cure. Are you planning on making a boneless ham with that leg? A little more detail about your intentions would go a long way. :o)

black · Jun 16, 2013

Originally Posted by S2K9K [h3]edited post[/h3]

S2K9K
Yesterday at 8:39 pm

Black,
I just wanted to let you know I had to edit one of your posts and delete a link. As per @TulsaJeff and our User Guidelines, offsite links are not permitted to be posted on this forum.
Here is a link to the edited post:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/139323/stx-turboforce-3000-series-grinder#post_1074283
Thank You for understanding,
Moderator Team

That's OK, edit my posts as you like

daveomak · Jun 16, 2013

Black, no problem with cure #2..... The nitrite takes care of the immediate bacteria at refered temps, then the nitrate converts to nitrite for the long term bacteria concerns.... Nitrate needs bacteria to convert to nitrite and warmer temps for the bacteria to grow for the conversion... 45-50 deg F works... even higher temps are used in controlled atmosphere aging chambers....

You are in winter where you are, correct ?? You should have some good temps available for long temp curing...

solaryellow is right..... What is the planned method you are using... Do you have the recipe handy to show us here...

Dave

diggingdogfarm · Jun 16, 2013

Why does the nitrate scare you? Nitrite is much more toxic than nitrate, but only in quantities far beyond what you'll be using.
While Cure #1 is preferred, if you use the Cure #2 at 0.25% you wouldn't be using any more nitrite and nitrate than someone who cures with Morton Tender Quick (actually, you'd be using less nitrate.)

Cure #2 at 0.25%, nitrite would be 150ppm and nitrate 100ppm.

Morton Tender Quick used at one level tablespoon per pound of meat amounts to ~156ppm nitrite and ~156ppm nitrate.

~Martin

black · Jun 16, 2013

black · Jun 16, 2013

diggingdogfarm · Jun 16, 2013

If it comes to equilibrium, the ham will reach 117ppm nitrite and 78ppm nitrate, no where near the recommended maximum.
Whether it reaches equilibrium or not in 15 days, will depend on the thickness.
The salt level is very low, is that intentional?

~Martin

black · Jun 16, 2013

diggingdogfarm · Jun 16, 2013

205 grams of salt would be 1.8% salt at equilibrium.
168 grams would be about 1.5% salt at equilibrium.
You shouldn't use less than 100ppm nitrite if you plan to cold smoke.
15 days should be enough time if it's only 2-3 inches thick, even with the skin.

~Martin

daveomak · Jun 16, 2013

8.2 Kg + 4 Kg water + .5 Kg brown sugar = 13 Kg approx.... 1.8 - 2% is where I'd start.... 0.25 Kg salt.. total salt including the salt in the cure... since you have a large weight of water and meat, the salt in the cure is negligible.... but worth mentioning for future reference...

black · Jun 16, 2013

black · Jun 16, 2013

black · Jun 18, 2013

daveomak · Jun 18, 2013

Black, evening..... I saw this, this morning...... I thought someone would figure out a plan for you... Not sure about this idea but I will pass it on.... After the refer rest, roll it up tight and tie with cotton string... hang in the smoker and cold smoke for a couple weeks or months... if you add a pan of water, it will keep the humidity up so the surface of the meat does not dry out and harden.... that can be bad..... once the surface hardens, it will trap moisture inside.... that's the bad part.... you want the moisture to escape so the meat will dry uniformly all the way through... humidity of 70-80% might be about right..... I'm just guessing here..... trying to put together bits and pieces from stuff I have read..... actually never used a long term cure for meat.... I just bought cure #2 to try some of the recipes I've read on here.... haven't taken step two yet..... as the meat dries, the salt content will go up, which is very necessary to stop bacteria formation.... bringing the internal temp up to 145 for several hours will stop bacterial growth but the meat will need to be refered or frozen when done.... It will not be a "dried" product like some of the Italian stuff...... I think that is correct....

DigginDog or nepas can help here, a lot more than I can.....

I have 2 cure books in my bucket / wish list on Amazon..... they haven't got here yet..... I guess I will have to order them for myself....

black · Jul 15, 2013

black · Jul 16, 2013

daveomak · Jul 16, 2013

Cure #2 needs the meat to be warmer than a refer to allow the bacteria to grow so the nitrate will convert to nitrite... humidity is also required so the meat doesn't "skin over" trapping the moisture inside.... Smoking with a very thin smoke at 68 deg should be fine... keep a pan of water in the smoker to keep the humidity up so the outside of the meat will not dry out.... I would smoke for 12-16 hours at night and then refer until the outside temp dropped to 60 and back in the smoker... use 60 deg as the in and out of the smoker temp... Very light smoke... this could go on for months until a percentage weight loss was observed of the meat..... that weight loss will have increased the salt content to an acceptable level to stop the growth of bacteria.... I do not know the percentage weight loss or the salt % content required to yield a shelf stable, bacteria free product.... I ain't got there yet in my learning development.... wish I knew so I could help.....

diggingdogfarm · Jul 16, 2013

Are you trying to make a dry cured ham or a ham that you intend to eat in the near future?

~Martin

black · Jul 16, 2013

Cure #2 ?

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