Turkey Brine Question

xfitjay · Nov 5, 2012

I'm going to be smoking a turkey for Thankgiving and wanted to give it a trial run with a small bird. My question revolves around what kind of brine to use. I've been using Pop's Brine Cure for bacon and I noticed in the recipe that a mention that the brine can be used for chickens and turkey. Pop's brine uses cure #1 in it and most turkey brine recipes I've seen don't use cure, usually just a mixture of salt, sugar and some seasonings. Is there any particular advantage or benefit to using Pop's brine for a Thanksgiving turkey? Should I just stick with a regular brine?

pit 4 brains · Nov 5, 2012

I'm planning on smoking a turkey for Thanksgiving and I'm going to give it a trial run before the day. I've been using Pop's Brine Cure recipe for bacon I'm making and in the recipe it indicates that it can be used with chicken or turkey. Pop's Brine Cure has cure #1 in it and most of the poultry brine recipes I've seen do not. Any recommendations on whether to go with Pop's or the regular brine? What would I get, or not get, using either one?

Jay,

You are basically asking the same thing you did in the Poultry section. It has recently been stated in the Messages for All Guests and Members section not to post multiple times with the same content. I can guarantee you will not get any different answers by doing so. Stick to the original post and maybe rephrase the question if the answers you get are not providing you with the information you seek.

xfitjay · Nov 5, 2012

My apologies. I hadn't gotten any responses and I thought maybe I just needed to try a different forum. I was not specifically aware of the policy, but it makes sense, and it did occur to me, briefly, that I was being redundant. I'm not always the sharpest tool...

mozbo · Nov 5, 2012

Okay, you've nicely chewed the guy out for repetitive posting, but you DIDN'T answer the question!!!

Don't you possibly think your reprimand would have been MUCH more effective if you had actually addressed the issue, rather than display an anal concern over the posting of the question more than once???

So, to post the question YET AGAIN (this time from a DIFFERENT poster...)

This thread comes up on the side bar, with NO other reference to any other queries...Yet another reason to go ahead and answer the question *again*, or at the very least, post a link to where your previous answer may reside...

Pop's Brine Cure has cure #1 in it and most of the poultry brine recipes I've seen do not. Any recommendations on whether to go with Pop's or the regular brine? What would I get, or not get, using either one?

pit 4 brains · Nov 5, 2012

Mozbo, welcome to the forum. Please drop by the Roll Call section and introduce yourself, we would love to give you a proper welcome. This is a friendly site with very experienced members who are always available to give advice, answer questions, and above all, keep people from doing dangerous things with food.

Have you read xfitjay's original post? If not it's here,( http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/129935/turkey-brine-question ) and it's in a discussion format.

I edited this post to reflect the correct link. I apologize for any confusion.

shoneyboy · Nov 5, 2012

xfitjay said:
I'm going to be smoking a turkey for Thankgiving and wanted to give it a trial run with a small bird. My question revolves around what kind of brine to use. I've been using Pop's Brine Cure for bacon and I noticed in the recipe that a mention that the brine can be used for chickens and turkey. Pop's brine uses cure #1 in it and most turkey brine recipes I've seen don't use cure, usually just a mixture of salt, sugar and some seasonings. Is there any particular advantage or benefit to using Pop's brine for a Thanksgiving turkey? Should I just stick with a regular brine?

Xfitjay, It depends on how you want to cook it.....The reason Pops recipe has cure in it, is because he's planning on smoking it. There is a 40 deg - 140 deg within 4 hour rule that applies.....When smoking meat the 40-140 range is the best place to be when smoking something, this is the best temperature to get your best smoke flavor to apply.... If you are just going to bake it in the oven then just a salt/sugar brine will be sufficient.......In an oven your able to get through the 140 deg point to kill any pathogens within the 4 hours.....When smoking meat, it has the potently to be in the danger zone beyond this time, cure is used to protect you from getting sick......Now there is an extremely more in-depth version of this and I hope I covered enough of it to answer your question....If not PM me and we can chat some more.....ShoneyBoy Oh!!! BTW......

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shoneyboy
Oct 31, 2012

xutfuzzy · Nov 5, 2012

Well, I'm a little torn here...I went to the original post, but that one doesn't ask about brining/curing.

Here's my two cents. Definitely brine the bird. Pops brine is for CURING meat, as in making bacon or pastrami. I've used it, it's great. But it is not for Thanksgiving turkey. A good brine for flavor and moisture retention would be Alton Brown's brine.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/good-eats-roast-turkey-recipe/index.html

I've used it and it works great. My family certainly enjoyed it.

pit 4 brains · Nov 5, 2012

xutfuzzy said:
Well, I'm a little torn here...I went to the original post, but that one doesn't ask about brining/curing.

Here's my two cents. Definitely brine the bird. Pops brine is for CURING meat, as in making bacon or pastrami. I've used it, it's great. But it is not for Thanksgiving turkey. A good brine for flavor and moisture retention would be Alton Brown's brine.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/good-eats-roast-turkey-recipe/index.html

I've used it and it works great. My family certainly enjoyed it.

I edited post #5.

chef jimmyj · Nov 5, 2012

Pops Brine is Great but will give the Turkey a Hammy flavor. If Turkey Ham is something you like Pops Brine will get you there. For a flavorful, tender and moist Turkey I go with a 24 hour soak in this brine and use the Rub as well. The Rub can be mixed with soft butter or Bacon Grease and rubbed on and under the skin for additional flavor. For a Turkey 14lb or less there is no problem smoking at temps from 225*F to 300*F and get it above 140* IT in 4 hours. Anything larger either needs to be Spatchcocked or Smoked above 300*F. The Cure is completely optional...JJ

Families Favorite Brine

1/2C Kosher Salt

2T Paprika

2T Gran. Garlic

2T Gran. Onion

2T Dry Thyme

2T Black Pepper

1C Vinegar (Any)

1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix

1/2C Brown Sugar, Optional

1T Red Pepper Flake Optional

Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.

Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.

Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.

This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...

Bubba Chix Rub

1/2C Raw Sugar

2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)

1T Cayenne

1T Gran. Garlic

1T Gran. Onion

1tsp Black Pepper

1tsp Wht Pepper

1tsp Allspice

1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)

Mix well and rub on Oil or Butter coated Chicken.

Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.

Good Luck!

xfitjay · Nov 5, 2012

Thanks for all the input. Here's what I've learned so far:

- Brine with cure will protect against botullism.

- If I'm going to smoke with a regular brine, smoke it at a fairly high temp to get it up to 140 within 4 hours.

- I've also heard that using a brine with cure may give the meat a "hammy" taste. Anyone experience that?

- There's a lot of interesting brine recipes out there.

I put the bird in a regular brine a couple of hours ago. I'm going to let it brine all night and smoke it tomorrow. I have an MES 30 with a top end of 275. I'll monitor it and see how it goes. I'll see if I can figure out how to post some pictures.

Thanks again. Any other thoughts, suggestions or recommendations, send them my way.

xfitjay · Nov 5, 2012

Pit 4 Brains said:
I edited post #5.

I liked the original link - to the thread Turkey Time - you had in there. That one helped me with my question also.

pit 4 brains · Nov 5, 2012

Give it a whirl and take notes.

If you are unfamiliar with cures then you shouldn't experiment with them. Just follow the guidelines of the "Danger Zone" and you will be ok with your bird..

xfitjay · Nov 6, 2012

Chef JimmyJ said:
Pops Brine is Great but will give the Turkey a Hammy flavor. If Turkey Ham is something you like Pops Brine will get you there. For a flavorful, tender and moist Turkey I go with a 24 hour soak in this brine and use the Rub as well. The Rub can be mixed with soft butter or Bacon Grease and rubbed on and under the skin for additional flavor. For a Turkey 14lb or less there is no problem smoking at temps from 225*F to 300*F and get it above 140* IT in 4 hours. Anything larger either needs to be Spatchcocked or Smoked above 300*F. The Cure is completely optional...JJ

Families Favorite Brine

1/2C Kosher Salt

2T Paprika

2T Gran. Garlic

2T Gran. Onion

2T Dry Thyme

2T Black Pepper

1C Vinegar (Any)

1-11/2Gal Cold Water to cover Chix

1/2C Brown Sugar, Optional

1T Red Pepper Flake Optional

Mix well and Soak the Bird over night or up to 24 Hours.

Remove the Chix, rinse if desired and pat dry with paper towels.

Place in an open container in the refrigerator overnight or up to 24 hours for the Skin to dry.

This will give a crispier skin when Smokng or Roasting...

Bubba Chix Rub

1/2C Raw Sugar

2T Paprika (I use Smoked if I'm just Grilling)

1T Cayenne

1T Gran. Garlic

1T Gran. Onion

1tsp Black Pepper

1tsp Wht Pepper

1tsp Allspice

1tsp Bell's Poultry Seasoning (optional)

Mix well and rub on Oil or Butter coated Chicken.

Reduce Cayenne to 1teaspoon if less heat is desired.

Good Luck!

I began my reply before I saw your comment (Chef JimmyJ) about cure making the turkey hammy. Thanks for confirming that.

On the temperature side of this, I am planning on smoking an 18#-20# bird. And I'm going to use a regular (non-cure) brine. I have an MES 30 (I'll need to do some measuring to make sure it'll fit) with a top end temp of 275. Can I do a hybrid smoke of maybe 3 hours in the smoker, then some time in the oven (at around 400?), then maybe back in the smoker for the duration after the IT is above 140? Would that work?

shoneyboy · Nov 6, 2012

xfitjay said:
Thanks for all the input. Here's what I've learned so far:

- Brine with cure will protect against botullism.

- If I'm going to smoke with a regular brine, smoke it at a fairly high temp to get it up to 140 within 4 hours.The only thing is that you need to get it past the 140 deg in less than 4 hours......

- I've also heard that using a brine with cure may give the meat a "hammy" taste. Anyone experience that?

- There's a lot of interesting brine recipes out there. Yes, a brined trukey is one of the only ones I will cook......

I put the bird in a regular brine a couple of hours ago. I'm going to let it brine all night and smoke it tomorrow. I have an MES 30 with a top end of 275. I'll monitor it and see how it goes. I'll see if I can figure out how to post some pictures.

Thanks again. Any other thoughts, suggestions or recommendations, send them my way.

Good luck and I hope all goes well for you ShoneyBoy........

spoolinaz · Nov 6, 2012

xfitjay said:
Thanks for all the input. Here's what I've learned so far:

- Brine with cure will protect against botullism.

- If I'm going to smoke with a regular brine, smoke it at a fairly high temp to get it up to 140 within 4 hours.

- I've also heard that using a brine with cure may give the meat a "hammy" taste. Anyone experience that?

- There's a lot of interesting brine recipes out there.

I put the bird in a regular brine a couple of hours ago. I'm going to let it brine all night and smoke it tomorrow. I have an MES 30 with a top end of 275. I'll monitor it and see how it goes. I'll see if I can figure out how to post some pictures.

Thanks again. Any other thoughts, suggestions or recommendations, send them my way.

Here is my reply to you in your other thread: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/129935/turkey-brine-question#post_880694

Follow the link about my cured Turkey breasts. It's very easy to do. Also, I smoke all my birds at or above 300 to save the skin. Going slow and low is not necessary on poultry as there is no real connective tissue to break down like in pork and beef. So unless you're over 14 lbs, like JJ mentioned, 40-140 is no problem.

chef jimmyj · Nov 6, 2012

xfitjay said:
I began my reply before I saw your comment (Chef JimmyJ) about cure making the turkey hammy. Thanks for confirming that.

On the temperature side of this, I am planning on smoking an 18#-20# bird. And I'm going to use a regular (non-cure) brine. I have an MES 30 (I'll need to do some measuring to make sure it'll fit) with a top end temp of 275. Can I do a hybrid smoke of maybe 3 hours in the smoker, then some time in the oven (at around 400?), then maybe back in the smoker for the duration after the IT is above 140? Would that work?

Sure that should not be a problem. The goal is 140* in 4 for safety purposes and between the 275*F then an oven at 350*F ( 400* is pretty hot for that amount of time.) you should get to 140*F in plenty of time. Just don't stuff it. You can go back in the smoker or finish the cook in the Oven...JJ

fagesbp · Nov 6, 2012

What would be the drawbacks of using cure #1 in a turkey in the place of a little of the salt in any poultry brine recipe so that it can cure and not have to worry about the 40-140 in 4? I'm thinking about doing a big turkey (around 18#) in brine then smoking around 250-275. Wouldn't it be ok if I had used the proper amount of cure to water in my brine? The hammy flavor is more likely from the sugar than the cure which is pretty much just salt flavor.

woodcutter · Nov 6, 2012

Here is the slaugherhouse brine. I have used this for chicken a few times and it is really good. No cure

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/tips-slaughterhouse-recipes-for-poultry

chef jimmyj · Nov 6, 2012

fagesbp said:
What would be the drawbacks of using cure #1 in a turkey in the place of a little of the salt in any poultry brine recipe so that it can cure and not have to worry about the 40-140 in 4? I'm thinking about doing a big turkey (around 18#) in brine then smoking around 250-275. Wouldn't it be ok if I had used the proper amount of cure to water in my brine? The hammy flavor is more likely from the sugar than the cure which is pretty much just salt flavor.

There really are no drawbacks if you don't mind the flavor it imparts. The Hammy flavor is partially made up from the sugar but the bulk of the flavor comes from the Cure (Nitrite). As an example a Brined Turkey without Cure tastes like a Turkey but seasoned with what ever was in the Brine. Just like a Brined Smoked Pork Ham, Butt, Belly or Loin without cure tastes like Smoke Pork. It does not taste like a City Ham, Buck Board Bacon/Cottage Ham, Bacon or Canadian Bacon until you add the Nitrite...JJ

xfitjay · Nov 6, 2012

Woodcutter said:
Here is the slaugherhouse brine. I have used this for chicken a few times and it is really good. No cure

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/tips-slaughterhouse-recipes-for-poultry

I was introduced to this recipe by fpnmf. My test run bird was brined in it overnight and is in the smoker right now. While I was getting that ready I cold smoked some bacon this morning - about a 10# belly. Half cured in Pop's Brine Cure and half using the cure calculator. I know I like the Pops Brine Cure, but I'm testing it against the dry cure to see which one I like better. While the turkey is in the smoker I'm processing about 20# of sausage using Fassett's Breakfast Sausage recipe. If the turkey turns out as good as I think it will, it'll be a pretty good day.

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