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First smoked cheese question ! - Page 3

post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Johnson View Post
 

Vacume sealing will make it last for months. If it lasts that long.not sure about wraping. If youre going to wrap Id suggest not a huge batch so it wont go bad.

 

Oh Yeah!  What happened to that Q-View Roller?

vacuumed packed the cheese will last years as long as it is an unripened variety. so anything other than blue cheese, brie style cheese or wash rind cheese.

 

Even wrapped a piece of smoked cheddar will not go bad for a very long time. The smoke inhibits bacterial growth on the outside so it shouldn't go moldy. If it does get a spot or two of mold on it just cut or wash it off and keep eating.

 

heres a short list of excellent cheeses for smoking, any cheddar (the older the better, 2-5yr is my fav) emmentaler types (swiss, jarelsburg), gruyere, gouda, Monterey jack, asiago, English Blue Stilton (one of the best smoked!!!) provolone, mozza,

 

heres a picture of my smokehouse full of cheese for smoking. This is in my cheese and butcher shop.

 

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post #42 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by madman mike View Post
 

vacuumed packed the cheese will last years as long as it is an unripened variety. so anything other than blue cheese, brie style cheese or wash rind cheese.

 

Even wrapped a piece of smoked cheddar will not go bad for a very long time. The smoke inhibits bacterial growth on the outside so it shouldn't go moldy. If it does get a spot or two of mold on it just cut or wash it off and keep eating.

 

I am sorry Mike but I have to disagree

 

Not all vacuum packed cheeses will last for years. It will depend on what is on the cheese surface when it is vac packed. Even some supermarket mature Cheddars that have been vac packed will begin to get undesirable mold after a few weeks/months.

 

It is also a myth that smoking will effectively inhibit bacterial growth. Smoke may have a short term antiseptic effect however normal smoked cheese will mold almost as quickly as normal un-smoked cheese when packed. It will all depend on the type cheese and what is on the surface at the time of packing.

 

The way we use smoke with cheese is really only as a flavouring agent. The preservative effect of smoking on any food is predominantly the dehydration of that food during the smoking process - and we do not smoke cheese in this way.

 

Your cheese cabinet looks great by the way. 


Edited by Wade1 - 2/23/14 at 11:02am
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade View Post

I am sorry Mike but I have to disagree

Not all vacuum packed cheeses will last for years. It will depend on what is on the cheese surface when it is vac packed. Even some supermarket mature Cheddars that have been vac packed will begin to get undesirable mold after a few weeks/months.

It is also a myth that smoking will effectively inhibit bacterial growth. Smoke may have a short term antiseptic effect however normal smoked cheese will mold almost as quickly as normal un-smoked cheese when packed. It will all depend on the type cheese and what is on the surface at the time of packing.

The way we use smoke with cheese is really only as a flavouring agent. The preservative effect of smoking on any food is predominantly the dehydration of that food during the smoking process - and we do not smoke cheese in this way.

Your cheese cabinet looks great by the way. 



My experience and knowledge is accurate and gained as a cheese monger for 20 yrs and a speciality butcher in same store for 10yrs+. My family and i have owned and operated the business for 25 years.

I mentioned I can be more specific if interested because there are many nuances to cheese that would take many paragraphs to explain.

Also mention that not all can be held in cov packaging and gave a list of the 'families' of cheese that should never be vacuum packed.

I've had cheddar arrive in my store that had been aged 5 years in 40lb blocks prior to vac-packing then store for 2+yrs after sealing. Not an issue. Just keeps ageing and getting better.

Mold is caused by cross contamination when handling thorugh dirty hands, knives, cutting surface, or over diluted sanitizing solutions. I know from years of experience that the smoked surface of a smoked cheddar will take much longer to begin to show signs of contamination me than its un-smoked counterpart, even when exposed to certain levels contamination. Properly handled smoked cheddar will begin to shows signs of contamination on a freshly cut surface.

Smoke is antimicrobial and an antioxidant. In preserves the exterior but is unable to penetrate the interior of the food, which is why cures and brines are used to preserve meats.

When you smoke food the chemicals in the smoke adhere to the surface, that's what gives it the colour and flavour, and these chemicals impart the antibacterial and antioxidant properties onto the surface of the food being smoked. this is not a myth.

These antioxidant properties help when smoking oily fish by slowing the breakdown of the oils preventing them from going rancid in a short period of time. This is not a myth either.

We've cold smoked un-cured foods tested through a food sciences lab and the results show this is true. These tests were at the request of our local Health Department to ensure food safety to the public.

cheddar type cheeses that start to show signs of mold in a grocery store have cross contamination, if they are a vac packed cheese and there is mold in the package then there are 2 problems, the 1st being contamination and the 2nd is that the vacuum package has a leak somewhere in the package allowing enough air in to grow bacteria.

if anyone requires more detailed info on buying, handling, packaging, storing or smoking cheese let me know. More than happy to share my 20+ years of hands on knowledge and experience on the subject

Cheers, \Mike

P.S

Heres a Pic of a whole aged AAA un-cured cold smoked then dry aged for 48 hr. Another of the specialities our cheese and meat shop. Best steaks ever!! .
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Edited by madman mike - 2/23/14 at 2:08pm
post #44 of 46

Hi Mike. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. It is always good to hear of successful family run businesses.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by madman mike View Post
 

vacuumed packed the cheese will last years as long as it is an unripened variety.

 

I am not surprised that the 40lb block of matured fared well when it was eventually vac packed as during its 5 year maturation prior to packing it would probably have lost a great deal of its moisture content. Unfortunately most of the cheese that people on here buy to smoke are younger mass produced supermarket cheese with a higher moisture content. I have frequently bought vacuum packed supermarket cheddar cheese that unopened has shown significant mold growth soon after its package "best before" date. You are right, it is probably down to the handling however the fact that it has been vacuum packed in itself does not mean that it will last years. I am sure that we could both cite personal experience examples of both exceedingly long and exceedingly short packaged shelf lives.

 

Yes smoke does have mild antibacterial and antioxidant properties however in the amounts that are usually found on the surface of cheese after the relatively short periods that it is smoked the effects are not long lasting. I too sell cheese - maybe not in the same quantities as you - and I too have had to go through government lab testing.

Most meat products on the other hand are usually smoked for much longer and often at higher temperatures than cheese. Without knowing what was in your cold smoked uncured meat product and how it was smoked it would be impossible for me to comment on the cause of its preservation

post #45 of 46

Hi Mike - I see you edited your post whilst I was replying.

 

The steak looks great. I bet you sell a lot of those Thumbs Up

post #46 of 46

Good thread.. Just answered all my questions in one.. thanks again people of SMF

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