Decided to settle the salmon battle on my own. Not sure I did...

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bigfish98

Smoking Fanatic
Original poster
Oct 13, 2011
394
12
Bismarck, ND
OK, recently I have noticed some differences of opinion on smoked salmon.  There have been two threads that I have been watching to see what happens popcorn in hand. 
110.gif


Both are dealing with smoking salmon but are based on two different preparations. 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/127170/hot-smoking-salmon-throwing-down-the-gauntlet

and

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/126282/salty-salmon

I decided to try both variations and see what I liked better.  Here are my thoughts.

To start with the top link, the salmon is placed in a brine of 1 cup salt and 2 cups brown sugar per gallon of water, then brined for 90 minutes and smoked at 140 degrees until done which being a rookie I used IT of 140 degrees. 

The second method details using a more ingredient heavy (1/2 cup salt, 2 cups sugar, pepper, garlic powder, bay leaves, cayenne, etc.) brine in only 1 quart of water.  This method calls for a brine time of 16 to 24 hours. 

Here is my fish.



I had approximately 5 pounds so I put half in each brine.



I weighted each batch down with a plate and set them in the fridge to brine.

Of course I took the one batch out at 90 minutes, rinse quickly, patted dry and placed on counter in front of the fan to form a pellicle.  I smoked them using my MES 40 and my amnps with the Hickory Cherry Maple mix at 140 degrees until it hit 140.  As you can see in the pic from the piece in the middle on the left I couldn't help from eating it before I got my camera ready.  What you can't see from the pic is that there was already a piece gone that I ate!!  It was very good!!


Here is a couple close ups.



Wife loved it and shared a little with the neighbors while I waited on the other batch to get done brining. 

i removed the other brined batch, rinsed, patted dry and formed pellicle with a fan.  They had brined about 18 hours.

I used the same smoking procedures and set up with this batch as the last one.  As you can see from the picture below, I am still having small self control issues.  This salmon was also very tasty! 


Here are the close ups. 



And the winner is.................

BOTH!

They are both really good.  The longer brined salmon has a more salty taste.  Both are very flavorful. 

The wife and i did agree that we did not get too much of a different flavor from the more ingredient intense brine.  The salt level was good in the shorter brined batch and the longer brined batch could turn some people off who don't like salt (I am not one of those people, but as I tell my wife, I have a sodium deficiency!) 

For any future salmon though, I believe for the short brine time and less ingredients, I will definately be using the first method as it it less work and takes less time. 

Thanks for reading!

Bigfish
 
I love how people compare threads on here. It saves me time, and with salmon season here you just saved me a day and a half doing it myself.
 
I love how people compare threads on here. It saves me time, and with salmon season here you just saved me a day and a half doing it myself.

mike
As the starter of one of the threads I congratulate you for seeing the error in so many other posters lives... But here is the funny part... I have been arrested exactly one time in my life and it happened in Lacey.... Not only were charges dropped but they were trying to "court my favor" all the way out the door...

So I have a special place in my heart for Lacey! :biggrin:

Now I have to find that bale of hundred dollar bills to send to bigfish!
art
 
OK, recently I have noticed some differences of opinion on smoked salmon.  There have been two threads that I have been watching to see what happens popcorn in hand.  :110:

Both are dealing with smoking salmon but are based on two different preparations. 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/127170/hot-smoking-salmon-throwing-down-the-gauntlet

and

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/126282/salty-salmon

I decided to try both variations and see what I liked better.  Here are my thoughts.

To start with the top link, the salmon is placed in a brine of 1 cup salt and 2 cups brown sugar per gallon of water, then brined for 90 minutes and smoked at 140 degrees until done which being a rookie I used IT of 140 degrees. 

The second method details using a more ingredient heavy (1/2 cup salt, 2 cups sugar, pepper, garlic powder, bay leaves, cayenne, etc.) brine in only 1 quart of water.  This method calls for a brine time of 16 to 24 hours. 

Here is my fish.





I had approximately 5 pounds so I put half in each brine.




I weighted each batch down with a plate and set them in the fridge to brine.

Of course I took the one batch out at 90 minutes, rinse quickly, patted dry and placed on counter in front of the fan to form a pellicle.  I smoked them using my MES 40 and my amnps with the Hickory Cherry Maple mix at 140 degrees until it hit 140.  As you can see in the pic from the piece in the middle on the left I couldn't help from eating it before I got my camera ready.  What you can't see from the pic is that there was already a piece gone that I ate!!  It was very good!!



Here is a couple close ups.






Wife loved it and shared a little with the neighbors while I waited on the other batch to get done brining. 

i removed the other brined batch, rinsed, patted dry and formed pellicle with a fan.  They had brined about 18 hours.

I used the same smoking procedures and set up with this batch as the last one.  As you can see from the picture below, I am still having small self control issues.  This salmon was also very tasty! 




Here are the close ups. 





And the winner is.................

BOTH!

They are both really good.  The longer brined salmon has a more salty taste.  Both are very flavorful. 

The wife and i did agree that we did not get too much of a different flavor from the more ingredient intense brine.  The salt level was good in the shorter brined batch and the longer brined batch could turn some people off who don't like salt (I am not one of those people, but as I tell my wife, I have a sodium deficiency!) 

For any future salmon though, I believe for the short brine time and less ingredients, I will definately be using the first method as it it less work and takes less time. 

Thanks for reading!

Bigfish

The problem is simpler and you seemed to overlook the primary issue with the two methods. The other method involved smoking to a temperature North of the "magic" temperature. If you use the higher temperature and any brining method you will lose... Stick to the lower temperature as the primary control point and you will make fewer mistakes... Or at least you will duplicate fewer of my mistakes.
art
 
The problem is simpler and you seemed to overlook the primary issue with the two methods. The other method involved smoking to a temperature North of the "magic" temperature. If you use the higher temperature and any brining method you will lose... Stick to the lower temperature as the primary control point and you will make fewer mistakes... Or at least you will duplicate fewer of my mistakes.
art
I admit that I didn't follow the other thread to a T.  My smoker did go higher than 140 when I smoked them though.  It hit 169 cause it was 90 degrees here.  For your method, I did keep it strictly at or under 140 as I was doing it at night and it was in the 40s. 

Oh and as for the check, all my friends call me "cash"! 
biggrin.gif


Bigfish
 
bigfish98, nice pictures and good to you for taking the initiative to do a flavor test.

  Over the years of curing and smoking salmon for friends I have learned that there are generally two groups.  One that will take their fish and before they get home it is gone or almost gone.  The other is the ones that will take it home and horde it in the refrigerator, sometimes for months.  The latter is one of the reasons that I insure they are taking a safe product home.

  In your test, I take it you cooked both types of fish for the same amount of time and at the same temperature.  If this is so it would have been nice, since you put so much time and effort into your test that you would have taken a couple pieces and smoked them according to my smoker temps, internal temps and time.  This way you could have done a taste test immediately with one piece and used the other in a preservation test.  If in the future you do decide to do another test, prepare them separately the same way for the refrigerator in a either a zip bag, cling wrap or vacuum seal and place them separately in the refrigerator.  After one month tell us which one you chose to eat. I cannot recommend you do that with the fish from your test as neither was brought to the safe temperature of 145° for 30 minutes which will inhibit bacterial growth, while anything below that temperature and time will promote bacterial growth. Do I recommend leaving smoked fish in the refrigerator that long?  No, but it does happen, even in this household.  If in the future you decide to do another test using my recipe, you can expect, depending on the type of smoker used and the amount of fish that the fish will be completely done in the one and a half hour range.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/newestpost/122931

  As for the time my recipe takes.  It’s been my experience that when working in the kitchen, the amount of time and work put into a recipe has direct correlation to the quality of the finished product.

Hope this helps and does not add to the confusion.

Tom
 
bigfish98,  if you think temp on my recipe was held at 145 degrees or above for one half hour, go ahead and do the preservation test.

Didn't notice any fat oozing.  Could that be possible?

T
 
Last edited:
I agree that I did not test both methods scientifically. My main question between the two was if the brines and brining time made a difference. Next time I will check the temp side. Wait a minute... that is the scientific way of checking things! Otherwise I wouldn't know if it was the brine and brine time or the temp that made a difference!

And as for your method taking shorter to smoke, doesn't that go against your assertion that the longer it takes the better the product?

Bigfish

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2
 
I was referring to the entire process and not just this recipe but others as well.
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I also like your trailer, I'm getting a rack of spares ready for the smoker as we speak.
drool.gif


Later
 
bigfish98,  if you think temp on my recipe was held at 145 degrees or above for one half hour, go ahead and do the preservation test.

Didn't notice any fat oozing.  Could that be possible?

T

And exactly how do you propose he make the "preservation" test scientific? Should he count microbes? How? Surely you are not going to suggest he rely on his gut... There may be a pun in there.

I am amazed...
 
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I am not getting what the disagreement is about. Considering every FDA and USDA Food storage chart recommends not storing cooked Fish or other meats for that matter, more than 3-4 days, Smoked Fish 14 days. If this storage time needs to be exceeded the product should be frozen. Whether Smoked Fish is Cold Smoked, Smoked to 140*F, 145*F or 165*F, 14 days is it in the Refrigerator. Storing Fish beyond this point is risky and should never be done.  These are the FDA and USDA Guidelines that SMF has chosen to follow and recommend to those that we share our product with...JJ

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/ResourcesForYou/HealthEducators/ucm109315.pdf

Product Refrigerator / Freezer

Fish & Shellfish

Lean fish 1 to 2 days / 6 months

Fatty fish 1 to 2 days / 2 to 3 months

Cooked fish 3 to 4 days / 4 to 6 months

Smoked fish 14 days / 2 months

Fresh shrimp, scallops,

crawfish, squid 1 to 2 days / 3 to 6 months

Canned seafood after opening out of can

Pantry, 5 years 3 to 4 days / 2 months

http://teamnutrition.usda.gov/Resources/ccrecipes3-6supp.pdf

IF YOU ARE STORING THIS FOOD ITEM IN THE REFRIGERATOR...

 

STORE NO LONGER THAN...

 

Meat/Meat Alternates

Chicken or turkey, cooked 3-4 days

Casseroles, meat, poultry, egg 3-4 days

Chicken nuggets 1-2 days

*Chicken or turkey, raw 1-2 days

Eggs, hard-cooked 1 week

Eggs, in shell, raw 3-5 weeks

Eggs, yolks, whites, substitutes, raw 2-4 days

Fish, cooked 3-4 days

*Fish, raw 1-2 days

Frankfurters, opened package 1 week

Frankfurters, sealed package 2 weeks

Gravy and meat broth 3-4 days

*Meat, chops, steaks, roasts, raw 3-5 days

Meat, cooked 3-4 days

*Meat or poultry, ground, raw 1-2 days

Meat, luncheon, store-sliced 3-5 days

Meat, luncheon, closed package 2 weeks

Meat, luncheon, opened package 3-5 days

Prepared salads: tuna, chicken, egg 3-5 days

Sausage, precooked 7 days

*Sausage, uncooked 1-2 days
 
Last edited:
Exactly! A couple posters have confused hot smoking with cold smoking on the food preservation side of things... And think refrigerated cooked fish should have a two month shelf life.

In the industry the guidelines are set, but the individual processors can stray significantly as long as they explain where and why they choose another route. With hot-smoked fish the problem is putting it in sterile packages with a total oxygen barrier. Putting it in the refrigerator with plenty of oxygen available the threat of botulism is virtually a non-issue. But then some insist on leaving it there for a month...

Unreal!
 
Unfortunately, I didn't pay that much attention.  With my two little boys, it is sometimes hard to keep track of time.  Thank god for the Maverick I have or I wouldn't have known it got to temp.  I did do another batch of salmon last night using the Mr. T Brine in 90 Mins like AKhap says.  I could not tell too much difference between the salmon brined for 90 mins in the Mr. T brine and the one brined for 18 hours.  At least I would call the difference negligible.  I will say that I can see myself using Mr. T's brine more now that I know that it can be used in 90 mins as it does produce a saltier product than AKhap's.  Sometimes I like it saltier, sometimes I don't.  Depends on the day.

Next time, I will test the smoking temp and see if that makes a difference.  I am slowly getting to test all variables in the two methods.  Please bear with me.  I will get there.  No pics of last nights test.  Please put your pitchforks and torches away.  I apologize.  Wife is out of town for the week so I am being Mr. mom. 

Bigfish
 
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