2 Briskets, Different Sizes

Do you have two gauges to measure both IT of each brisket seperatly?

Eric gave you some great advice - follow that to success and don't forget the qview

jlafrenz said:

I should have mentioned that I am using a UDS. I just built a shelf out of expanded metal so I can have 2 grates at the top. I was originally intending to use them for doing 2 pizza's, but I could probably use it this way for brisket. My center grate temps tend to be about 25-35 degrees hotter than the outside edge. I do have multiple thermometers. One is the ET-732 and the other is a basic Maverick one that just does temp.

Eric, you stated that stacking them would slow the cook time a bit. I am OK with this, but how much do you think it will slow it down? My pork butts have been taking 2 hr's per pound in the 225-250 range. I am going to "try" and keep the temps down closer to 225 or slightly lower. I figure the briskets should also take about the same time per pound.

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Just to clarify, when I mentioned putting the small one above the other (stacking, as you stated), the smaller piece would be on the next grate position above. The results can be effected by grate position temps, example being, the higher the grate level the hotter the temp, translates into a possible situation where the smaller piece, even though it's being baffled by another piece below it, still cooks at the same grate temp. So, this method will only work if the grate temps at the 2 levels would normally be the same, until you put a piece of meat below the upper grate. I've actually had to do just the opposite when these conditions exist: larger on top where it's hotter, smaller just beneath it...it just depends on the smoker and how it performs. Knowing your grate temp variances during normal smoking conditions is an important part of finding solutions to some these issues you may encounter from time to time.

Briskets, especially a center-cut (trimmed flat) instead of a whole packer, can take less time per pound than a pork butt, due to less cross-sectional density (not as thick), so there can be a bit different time-frame involved between the two cuts, with similar weather conditions and while using the same smoker. Also, fat-cap thickness, or lack thereof, can change cooking time for different cuts of meat quite a lot.

Regarding how much  stacking them it will slow it down will depend on the actual temp you will achieve by using the meat beneath it as a baffle. I always monitor grate temps with a probe when I make changes to the smoker's configuration, and using one piece of meat to baffle heat getting to another is no different...you effectively change the flow of heat through the smoke chamber by doing so.

If the grate temp for the smaller piece, judging by your weight differences, were about 10-15*, they should come out about the same total cooking time if finished temps are the same.

The catch is the plateau (stall). Each piece of meat will have different characteristics regarding stall time and temp ranges...you never know what temp and for how long, so even with the best laid and executed plans to compensate for weight differences, they may still not finish close to the same time.

If you plan to rest in foil, this is where you can balance out the finished time, and have them both sliced and ready to eat at the same time.

All things considered, I wouldn't sweat it too much...do what you think you can to help them cook evenly, but don't get your blood pressure up if you don't get it real close. I have tried my damndest to make this same situation work out for me on many occasions, and sometimes I get close, but more often, I don't. If one, for example, is @ 150* and the other is @ 130*, then you could make a quick change on grate positions to reverse or balance out the temp differences. If it were later in the smoke when you caught it (around 160* or higher, with a target temp of 180*), you probably can't do very much to even them out, as it's too late in the game to make any changes that will have much of an impact.

Eric

Sounds like a good plan, don't forget the Qview so some of us can drool!  Steve

Dragonmaster194 said:

Sounds like a good plan, don't forget the Qview so some of us can drool!  Steve

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AGREED! LOL!!!

jlafrenz said:

Thanks for all of the clarification. I don't have 2 thermometers that would measure grate temp, just meat temp. I don't think there would be too much of a difference in temps as the 2nd rack I made only has 3 inch legs on it. I use the flat lid that came with the barrel so I don't have a lot of room. The top brisket would be very close to the top of the UDS. There also isn't much space in between the bottom brisket and the 2nd rack. Maybe about 1/4 to 1/2 inch max. Not sure if this is good or not. I know it would run into issues with my foiling as there is no room to "tent".

I think my best bet is to throw the second one on at the same time or just a bit later using the same rack. Lunch is at 2:30 tomorrow so I am starting the smoke around 1AM. This should give me plenty of time to keep the heat low and pace for about 1 1/2 to 2 hours per pound. If one finishes up early, it can sit in the cooler for a bit longer.

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You're welcome.

Yeah, you want want to put large pieces that close to each other in a stacked fashion, or the one on top just won't cook...too much heat baffling from the one below. Your double-grate configuration with the smaller gap will work fine for chicken pieces, wings, quarters (*if staggered a bit) and other small cuts of meats like CSRs or chops. Otherwise, for larger cuts, I like to leave about 8" space between the grate positions such as a couple whole packer briskets or butts in a stacked fashion...they increase in height from lateral muscle shrinkage during cooking quite a bit, and will actually make contact with the grate above if it's very close at all. This compounds the heat baffling effect as well.

Yep, adding the smaller one later is what I'd do in this situation...much easier to make things happen the way you'd like them to. Call it the KISS method for this smoke...simple solution for what could turn into a head-ache, otherwise.

Eric

Yes, you can iron some wrinkles during resting. Doing fine so far, and you're thinking ahead. Piece a cake!!!

Eric

Yeah, getting the timing down that close is a pretty good hit...rare, IMHO. Well done on that! Looks really good at first glance...let's take a closer look and see where you're coming from, but before I do, my first thoughts are...

Dried out right after slicing...hmm...probably just surface moisture from the meat fibers escaping to atmosphere...it happens. But if lack of tenderness and a dry chew were noticed, they are linked together, to some degree.

How moist is your smoke chamber, normally? Do you use a water pan, or just a baffle plate over the coal basket? 195* may have been just a bit high for finished temps, but I have taken them that high for slicing before, and did notice a bit of dryness...but I have also have experienced worse for dryness, too, with lower finished temps.

OK, another thought: how long did you rest before slicing, and was the foil bundle wrapped in a towel to keep it hot longer? When resting, you want temps to drop off slowly, or else meat juices may not have time to redistribute thoroughly. You should see some juices on the board while slicing if it's too hot to cut, didn't rest long enough, or temps fell of too quickly.

***I clicked on the photo to enlarge and get a better idea, and in doing so, I see a good smoke ring, so the smoke chamber humidity must be at least moderate to high, and also realizing you're burning charcoal or lump, they help to produce a lot of NO2, which is actually what builds the smoke ring. I find that high humidity helps for even better smoke reaction and smoke ring development.

With lean muscle such as the flat (low to no inter-muscular fat), they are more susceptible to drying out when finished at higher internal temps. Keeping the fat cap on helps reduce this internal moisture loss, but reduces smoke reaction under the fat cap, so it's kind of a compromise to have surface fat.

Now, here's where I may raise a few arguments, though I have tested this theory on lean-trimmed pork butts and have not had the opportunity to test it on leaner meats: dry smoke chamber for the last half or more of the total cooking time tightens the meat fibers and reduces natural interior moisture loss, by reducing porosity of the surface. But a dry cooking environment will dry out the meat, right? Nope, just the surface. The wet smoke chamber keeps meat fibers loose and the surface porous, allowing for far more smoke reaction time than a dry smoke chamber, but if the humidity stays high throughout the cooking with high internal finished temps, the porous surface of the meat will release more natural moisture from the meat in the form of water vapor. This is why I asked about your smoke chamber humidity and if you use a water pan or just a baffle plate of some sort...this could very likely have a huge impact on your interior moisture of the finished brisket flat, and, IMHO, can be the easiest things to change for a better result in the future.

My second test of this theory is found here:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...mmed-butt-wet-dry-smoke-chamber-q-view-method

S2K9K (Dave) has tried a close replication of this method (as best he could during his pork butt smoke) and concurred with the results:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124191/taking-my-pulled-pork-to-a-new-level

If this is a method that could be incorporated into your UDS (which I'm sure it can be with a little thought on the subject), you may have the solution to dry sliced brisket flat just one mod away, and this could be done without foiling until you rest the meat, so, a bit less tinkering inside the drum to mess with foiling while the smoker is still fired-up and loosing heat. You may be able to run a wet pan over the fire, and if you get the water volume correct for the desired wet chamber time, just let it run dry for the remainder of the smoke, creating a very close replication to the cooking environment I had with my second test. Food for thought...

Eric

EDIT: I just realized something about the UDS that may be an inherent issue: they have very low ventilation rates compared to smokers I'm accustomed to using, which can create a naturally high humidity in the smoke chamber due to moisture evaporation from the meat as it progresses through cooking. Not to bash the UDS, but my method for a dry smoke chamber may not be possible, in this case...crap! Well, we can still discuss it find out where or if you may be able to make a change. I'm not giving up on finding a solution that easily...LOL!

Looks pretty good! I have followed Eric's brisket "advice" for both of mine and they have turned out fantastic. I only smoked the second one to a 175-180 IT since 195* was a bit too fall apart for our taste.