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Amount of Sodium Nitrites

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 

Pignit wrote this way back in Jan of 2010:

 

"Prague #1 (Insta-Cure #1, Modern Cure, DC #1, DQ #1, et. al., all the '#1's) is 6.25% sodium nitrite and 93.75% salt. It's used in dry cures and in brine cures, primarily for meat that will be smoked (though not necessarily) and cooked for service. It's used at the rate of 1oz/25lbs meat or 1 level teaspoon/5lbs meat."

 

Question about last sentence.  Are these usage rates for both dry and wet curing?  So if I'm doing two 5 lb pork bellies, one brined and one rubbed, do I use one level Tsp for each method?

 

Thx, TG

post #2 of 45

Try using the handy dandy search tool..

There is tons of info about cures/curing.

 

 

Also read this...http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts 

 

and this  http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/ 

 

and this  http://ruhlman.com/2011/05/the-no-nitrites-added-hoax/ 

 

OOOPS!!!!!! AFTER REREADING THIS I SEE WHERE I MADE THE MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 The short answer is...>>>YES.<<<<<  THE RIGHT ANSWER IS HELL NO!!!

 

Can I remove the dunce cap now????

 

 

 Have a great day!!

 

  Craig


Edited by fpnmf - 5/21/11 at 1:25pm
post #3 of 45



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoSov View Post

Pignit wrote this way back in Jan of 2010:

 

"Prague #1 (Insta-Cure #1, Modern Cure, DC #1, DQ #1, et. al., all the '#1's) is 6.25% sodium nitrite and 93.75% salt. It's used in dry cures and in brine cures, primarily for meat that will be smoked (though not necessarily) and cooked for service. It's used at the rate of 1oz/25lbs meat or 1 level teaspoon/5lbs meat."

 

Question about last sentence.  Are these usage rates for both dry and wet curing?  So if I'm doing two 5 lb pork bellies, one brined and one rubbed, do I use one level Tsp for each method?

 

Thx, TG


No. That is the rate for rubbing the cure on the meat or what you are calling "dry curing". The correct technical answer is that you are trying to stay under a certain parts per million. The rule of thumb with brining or "wet curing" is that the amount of cure you use in a brine is proportionate to the amount of brine and not necessarily the size of the meat.
 

 

 

post #4 of 45

This might be helpful to you. 

 

Here is the link to the full article: http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing

 

 

Quote:

How to Apply Cures

Well, there are two approaches:

  • Like an amateur - collecting hundreds of recipes and relying blindly on each of them. You lose a recipe and you don’t know what to do. And how do you know they contain the right amount of cure?
  • Like a professional - taking matters in your own hands and applying cures according to the USA Government requirements.
  •  

In case you want to be the professional, we are enclosing some useful data which is based on the U.S. standards. Comminuted products - small meat pieces, meat for sausages, ground meat, poultry etc. Cure #1 was developed in such a way that if we add 4 ounces of Cure #1 to 100 pounds of meat, the quantity of nitrite added to meat will conform to the legal limits (156 ppm) permitted by the Meat Division of the United States Department of Agriculture.

 

That corresponds to 1 oz. (28.35 g) of Cure #1 for each 25 lbs. (11.33 kg) of meat or 0.2 oz. (5.66 g) per 5 lbs. (2.26 kg) of meat.

 

Comminuted Meat (Sausages) Cure #1 in ounces Cure #1 in grams Cure #1 in teaspoons
25 lbs. 1 28.35 5
5 lbs. 0.2 5.66 1
1 lb. 0.04 1.1 1/5
1 kg 0.08 2.5 1/2

 

Cured dry products - country ham, country style pork shoulder, prosciutto, etc. These products are prepared from a single piece of meat and the curing ingredients are rubbed into the surface of the meat several times during the curing period. Nitrite is applied to the surface of the meat or poultry as part of a cure mixture. If you look at the FSIS nitrite limits table on page 36 you will see that the maximum nitrite limit for Dry Cured Products (625 ppm) is four times higher than for Comminuted Products (156 ppm).

 

To cure meat for sausages (comminuted) and to stay within 156 ppm nitrite limit we have to apply no more than 1 oz of Cure #1 for each 25 lbs of meat. To dry cure 25 lbs of pork butts and to stay within 625 nitrite limits we need 4 times more of Cure #1, in our case 4 ounces. Keep in mind that when you add Cure #1 (there is 93.75% salt in it) you are adding extra salt to your meat and you may re-adjust your recipe.

 

Meat for Dry Curing Cure #1 in ounces Cure #1 in grams Cure #1 in teaspoons
25 lbs. 4 113.4 20
5 lbs. 0.8 22.64 4
1 lb. 0.16 4.4 3/4
1 kg 0.35 10.0 1.5

 

The reason that there are much higher allowable nitrite limits for dry cured products is that nitrite dissipates rapidly in time and the dry cured products are air dried for a long time. Those higher limits guarantee a steady supply of nitrite.

 

Immersed, Pumped and Massaged Products such as hams, poultry breasts, corned beef. Here, it is much harder to come up with a universal formula as there are so many variables that have to be determined first. The main factor is to determine % pump when injecting the meat with a syringe or % pick-up when immersing meat in a curing solution. We will calculate the formula for 1 gallon of water, Cure #1 and 10% pick-up gain. Then the formula can be multiplied or divided to accommodate different amounts of meat. 10% pump or 10% pick-up mean that the cured meat should absorb 10% of the brine in relation to its original weight. For immersion, pumped or massaged products, the maximum in-going nitrite limit is 200 ppm and that corresponds to adding 4.2 oz of Cure #1 to 1 gallon of water.

 

Amount Cure #1 in ounces Cure #1 in grams Cure #1 in teaspoons
1 gallon (8.33 lbs) of water 4.2 120 20 (6 Tbs)

 

This is a very small amount of brine and if you want to cure a large turkey you will need to increase the volume. Just multiply it by a factor of 4 and you will have 4 gallons of water and 1.08 lbs. of Cure #1. The following is the safe formula for immersed products and very easy to measure: 5 gallons of water, 1 lb. of Cure #1. In the above formula at 10% pick-up the nitrite limit is 150 ppm which is plenty. Keep in mind that adding 1 lb. of Cure #1 to 5 gallons of water will give you 4.2% salt by weight and that corresponds to only 16 degrees brine (slightly higher than sea water). If we add an additional 2 lbs. of salt we will get: 5 gallons of water, 1 lb. of Cure #1, 2 lbs. of salt and that will give us a 25 degree solution which is great for poultry.

 

post #5 of 45

Well I agree with the Yes and the No. th_dunno-1[1].gif

 

I think we all agree the dry rub amount is correct .

 

When you're talking about an immersion cure (not a pumped and wet cured product) then you need to calculate the amount of cure using the weight of meat plus the weight of the brine.  so say you had 10 lbs of pork and 1 gallon of water ( about 18 pounds total or 8172 grams ) it would be (Sorry but I like working in grams ))))))))                )

28g x .0625% x 1,000,000 / 8172g. =214ppm  more then the usda's recommended max of 200ppm

If you were to use 2 gallons of water it would work out to 137ppm

I'd say the oz is right...... if you make up enough brine.

 

for more info on the subject check out the USDA's inspectors hand book starting on page 21

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISDirectives/7620-3.pdf 

post #6 of 45

 

 

Amount Cure #1 in ounces Cure #1 in grams Cure #1 in teaspoons
1 gallon (8.33 lbs) of water 4.2 120 20 (6 Tbs)

  

 

 There is no way I would put 6 tablespoons of #1 in a gallon of water...

 

Check out Pops  curing/brine recipe....1 tablespoon per gallon..he knows what he is talking about...

 

  Craig

post #7 of 45

Interesting article Beer-B-Q  I'm going to have to refer to that link.   Funny she doesn't mention Cure 2 for hams and long cure time sausages.  I'll have to do a bit more reading and see what she says.

post #8 of 45

Where they throw me off is percent pickup or percent absorbed during immersion.   You could weigh the meat before and after but that doesn't account for the water weight lost from the meat vs the water/cure weight added during the cure.  Fortunately minimum safe concentrations are pretty low,  we cure at higher concentrations knowing we will be above minimum safe levels and below max safe level as long as we follow somewhat close to proper procedures.

post #9 of 45

immersion cures are a crap shoot at best.. the best thing to do is get a needle and inject  the meat with what you want for a percent pick up and be done with it

 

post #10 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanMcG View Post

immersion cures are a crap shoot at best.. the best thing to do is get a needle and inject  the meat with what you want for a percent pick up and be done with it

 



Dammit Dan. I have a first attempt at a black ham that has been in the fridge for 28 days and has another 14 to go doing an immersion cure with sodium nitrate. I don't need you telling me it is a crapshoot at best right now. Tell me it is going to be alright and that I look pretty tonight. laugh1.gif

 

post #11 of 45

You're lookin damn good tonight Joel! rolleyes.gif   Can't wait to see the ham!  

post #12 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by solaryellow View Post





Dammit Dan. I have a first attempt at a black ham that has been in the fridge for 28 days and has another 14 to go doing an immersion cure with sodium nitrate. I don't need you telling me it is a crapshoot at best right now. Tell me it is going to be alright and that I look pretty tonight. laugh1.gif

 



I am sure what he meant is you will be the prettiest bell at the ball....or something like that....uh...right...ok.

 

post #13 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpnmf View Post

 

 

Amount Cure #1 in ounces Cure #1 in grams Cure #1 in teaspoons
1 gallon (8.33 lbs) of water 4.2 120 20 (6 Tbs)

  

 

 There is no way I would put 6 tablespoons of #1 in a gallon of water...

 

Check out Pops  curing/brine recipe....1 tablespoon per gallon..he knows what he is talking about...

 

  Craig



I'm with Craig on this one. I just asked Pops this same question. Here's his answer.

 

 

I have one more question. On the bag of cure #1 it says to use 3 oz. to 1 gal. of water. 3 oz. is 5 tablespoons. Your recipe calls for only 1 tablespoon. Could you explain.

Thank-you, 

Al

38x38px-ZC-135716c8_womancarcass.jpg
Pops6927
Today at 5:29 am

that is the maximum concentration of cure you can use.  My dad discovered 60 years ago that if you reduce the amount of cure and cured for a longer period of time, the product is more tender, tenderizing naturally over time.  More cure and less time gives a less tender, more rubbery finished product.  1 tbsp to a gallon of water gets the job done more than sufficiently, and waiting a day or three longer shows that patience is a virtue, lol!  A good example is boiled ham.  From hog to sandwich, the total production time is 24-36 hours.  Would you call it tender or rubbery, lol?

 

 

post #14 of 45

ok now what bout venison jerky that you marinate over night ???....do you still use the 1 tsp to 5lbs of meat ratio it says to....i use non-heated moving air to dry my jerky for at least 12 hours after blotting as much out of the meat of marinate with paper towels....what should i follow then ??..........bob

 

....

post #15 of 45

nepas is staying out of this one cuz it looks like it can get uuuuuuugly 

 

post #16 of 45

Nepas,

 

I'll make it ugly for you    "Either inject or use a dry cure"

 

Al

post #17 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by alblancher View Post

Nepas,

 

I'll make it ugly for you    "Either inject or use a dry cure"

 

Al



 

Or you could try taking the training wheels off...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't resist. ;o)

post #18 of 45



Hehehehehehehehe!!!   Don't be mean!!Bottom.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by solaryellow View Post





 

Or you could try taking the training wheels off...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't resist. ;o)



 

post #19 of 45

Sorry guys but this is one thread that I think should remain on the serious side. You may have folks on here whether members or lurkers that aren't familiar with cure #1 & think that it is just another additive to use, whether wet or dry. They need to know if you don't get it right you may be endangering your health. I have used both the recommended amount of cure on the bag of cure #1 & the amount Pops recommends & I am going to follow Pops guidelines from now on. If the meat will cure with less curing salts and just more time I think this would be the healthy alternative. This is just my opinion & I would suggest anyone who is contemplating using a cure for the first time to do a lot of research.

post #20 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAl View Post

Sorry guys but this is one thread that I think should remain on the serious side. You may have folks on here whether members or lurkers that aren't familiar with cure #1 & think that it is just another additive to use, whether wet or dry. They need to know if you don't get it right you may be endangering your health. I have used both the recommended amount of cure on the bag of cure #1 & the amount Pops recommends & I am going to follow Pops guidelines from now on. If the meat will cure with less curing salts and just more time I think this would be the healthy alternative. This is just my opinion & I would suggest anyone who is contemplating using a cure for the first time to do a lot of research.




To be a little more serious, I would hope anyone that is curing meat HAS DONE A TON OF RESEARCH before giving it a try. There are some very serious risks if you get it wrong. I have used Pops' recipes in the past with great success and it is important to know that Pops has a lot of experience under his belt and probably has more knowledge of the process than we can ever hope to pry out of his skull. That being said, throwing up blanket statements about implicit trust in a person despite it not being what the FDA and professional sausage makers agree to does concern me. There are a lot of principles that have not been discussed in this thread like equalization and the chemistry behind the art of cured meat. I have met fpnmf in person and can attest that he is a great guy, his take on brines is completely wrong and could lead to someone getting sick. Do the research, investigate the chemistry and explore the art of cured meat for yourself before trying it. Nobody here wants to see anyone else get sick or worse because somebody took somebody else's advice on the internet.

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