Rytek's recipe and Cure #1

[BGKYSmoker]

YIKES

Hurting my gray matter.

1 tsp per every 5 lbs of meat.

Nuff said   OUWWWWCH

 

[DanMcG]

Where are you getting the 5 lbs.?
I was told by the 'authorities' to use the comminuted (ground meat) rate (156 ppm) when curing jerky.

Damn I was way off . Thanks Sausageboy . I mixed up my cups, quarts and gallons.
I hate volume measures.
I will correct my original post.

If I had thought about it I should have realized that a cup wouldn't weigh 5 pounds...

 

[big casino]

LOL here at my house at 1100 ft above sea level  1 leveled tsp of instacure#1 = 5grams

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Damn I was way off . Thanks Sausageboy . I mixed up my cups, quarts and gallons.
I hate volume measures.
I will correct my original post.
If I had thought about it I should have realized that a cup wouldn't weigh 5 pounds...

That happens to all of us!!

:icon_cool:

 

[chef jimmyj]

I think you guys are missing the KEY WORDS here...

" Following is his recipe for jerky. Note, he mentions air drying it instead of smoking it, but I'm not sure if that would have any bearing with my conundrum....."

  Some are also confusing Dry Curing as in "Air to dry the meat" and Dry Curing meaning a "Dry Rub containing Cure"...

If in this recipe Rytek intended to Air Dry the jerky it would be resonable based on the info DaveOmak provided...

" The reason that there are much higher allowable nitrite limits for dry cured products is that nitrite dissipates rapidly in time and the dry cured products are air dried for a long time. Those higher limits guarantee a steady supply of nitrite."

 ....that Extra Cure be added because of the Dissapation rate of Nitrite over Time.  So...Air Dryed Jerky, 1tsp per 3 pounds Meat...All other methods, 1tsp per 5 pounds Meat...

It would seem Rytek figured his recipe would be followed Exactly, and not  Smoked, placed in a fancy Dehydrator or that Savvy guys from SMF would be calculating in PPM.

He provided a margin of Safety for the Home Jerky Maker who knows Zip!...JJ

 

[sausageboy]

Deleted by SausageBoy!

 

[chef jimmyj]

When using the USDA's recommended maximum cure levels, their definitions of what is being cured must also be used.
The USDA sees "dry cured" products as larger pieces of meat cured for an extended length of time.
"NITRITE USED IN CURED, DRY PRODUCTS
The amount of ingoing nitrite used in dry cured products, such as country ham, country style pork
shoulder, prosciutto, etc., is based on the green weight of the meat or poultry in the product
formulation. These products are prepared from a single intact piece of meat or poultry that has
had the curing ingredients directly applied to the surface, and has been dried for a specified period
of time. For large pieces of meat, the curing ingredients must be rubbed on the surface several
times during the curing period. The rubbed meat or poultry cuts are placed on racks or in boxes
and allowed to cure. Nitrite is applied to the surface of the meat or poultry as part of a cure
mixture."
The jerky above doesn't fit the definition.
 

I understand what you are saying...And agree if we were talking Whole Meat ...But... In this case we are talking Jerky, AIR DRIED Jerky. Regardless of the penetration rate into large Whole muscle, Jerky Strips or even Ground Meat,or whether we are using a Marinade or Dry Rub, the issue is... Do we need extra Nitrite in the form Cure #1 to make up for Dissipation when we Air Dry jerky. When you compare to the WedlinyDomowe.com Charts Dave used...What amount of Cure #1 does the USDA info you reference, specify when the Jerky, is Air Dried?...Thanks...JJ

BTW...The quote of mine you referenced was not directed at you...

 

[DanMcG]

I was told by the 'authorities' to use the comminuted (ground meat) rate (156 ppm) when curing jerky.

I think I'd have to agree with the "Authorities" here. we're talking 1/4" slices of meat that are typically cured for a day. Within that time the cure has gone through the meat and 156ppm would be plenty, and fine for drying in the dehydrator or smoker. As far a hanging it to dry in the garage for week, I'd have to ponder on that for a bit.

 

[DanMcG]

..Does the USDA specify the same amount of Cure#1 whether the product, specifically Jerky, is Marinated, Dry Rubbed, Air Dryed, Smoked, or Dehydrated?...Thanks, >

Not to get off track with your question JJ, (but I will anyways) :biggrin:

The USDA recommends preheating your jerky to 160° then drying immediately after. this includes cured and uncured jerky. :pot:

Why is temperature important when making jerky? Illnesses due to Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7 from homemade jerky raise questions about the safety of traditional drying methods for making beef and venison jerky. The USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline's current recommendation for making jerky safely is to heat meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F before the dehydrating process. This step assures that any bacteria present will be destroyed by wet heat. But most dehydrator instructions do not include this step, and a dehydrator may not reach temperatures high enough to heat meat to 160 °F or 165 °F.

After heating to 160 °F or 165 °F, maintaining a constant dehydrator temperature of 130 to 140 °F during the drying process is important because:

* the process must be fast enough to dry food before it spoils; and
* it must remove enough water that microorganisms are unable to grow.

 

[chef jimmyj]

Not to get off track with your question JJ, (but I will anyways)

The USDA recommends preheating your jerky to 160° then drying immediately after. this includes cured and uncured jerky.

Why is temperature important when making jerky? Illnesses due to Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7 from homemade jerky raise questions about the safety of traditional drying methods for making beef and venison jerky. The USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline's current recommendation for making jerky safely is to heat meat to 160 °F and poultry to 165 °F before the dehydrating process. This step assures that any bacteria present will be destroyed by wet heat. But most dehydrator instructions do not include this step, and a dehydrator may not reach temperatures high enough to heat meat to 160 °F or 165 °F.
After heating to 160 °F or 165 °F, maintaining a constant dehydrator temperature of 130 to 140 °F during the drying process is important because:
* the process must be fast enough to dry food before it spoils; and
* it must remove enough water that microorganisms are unable to grow.
 

Good Morning Dan...For total safety it is a great idea to heat the Jerky to 160+F Before ,During or After Smoking or whatever...But I still would like to know one way or the other if adding a bit extra Cure#1 makes it safe to Air Dry, jerky and only jerky, because of Dissipation...

As long as we are Off Subject...

Some times it is hard to get a straight, definative answer. Each week I get another complaint about Posting a Clear Question and getting incomplete answers, general non-specific answers, meaningless diatribe or web clips taken and quoted out of context...I don't profess to be a brilliant man but 9 out of 10 times it seems some people answering the question didn't Read the question...

...JJ

 

 

[DanMcG]

Some times it is hard to get a straight, definative answer. Each week I get another complaint about Posting a Clear Question and getting incomplete answers, general non-specific answers, meaningless diatribe or web clips taken and quoted out of context...I don't profess to be a brilliant man but 9 out of 10 times it seems some people answering the question didn't Read the question...

...JJ

 

I think I was just insulted.:dunno :th_crybaby2:

Quite often there is no right answer and that's why these threads start taking on a life of there own.

I can't answer the OP's original question whether the cure is a safe amount, I can only give an opinion like everyone else, and offer links or information to help them make their own educated decision .

I also think it would be tough to find any info from the USDA on the subject of safely drying jerky for 7 days at room temp's like Mr Kutas recommends.

 

[chef jimmyj]

You have to be JOKING!...You know better than to think I would INSULT YOU!...

Discussion and opinion is what makes this fun but sometimes it gets so far off point, it becomes confusing. If there is no definative answer then members should state so and not try to be argumentative for the sake of it...JJ

 

[big casino]

I think you guys are missing the KEY WORDS here...

" Following is his recipe for jerky. Note, he mentions air drying it instead of smoking it, but I'm not sure if that would have any bearing with my conundrum....."

  Some are also confusing Dry Curing as in "Air to dry the meat" and Dry Curing meaning a "Dry Rub containing Cure"...

If in this recipe Rytek intended to Air Dry the jerky it would be resonable based on the info DaveOmak provided...

" The reason that there are much higher allowable nitrite limits for dry cured products is that nitrite dissipates rapidly in time and the dry cured products are air dried for a long time. Those higher limits guarantee a steady supply of nitrite."

 ....that Extra Cure be added because of the Dissapation rate of Nitrite over Time.  So...Air Dryed Jerky, 1tsp per 3 pounds Meat...All other methods, 1tsp per 5 pounds Meat...

It would seem Rytek figured his recipe would be followed Exactly, and not  Smoked, placed in a fancy Dehydrator or that Savvy guys from SMF would be calculating in PPM.

He provided a margin of Safety for the Home Jerky Maker who knows Zip!...JJ

actually Rytek gives you several ways of drying the same jerky, he mentions IF you live in a dry enough area, you can just let it air dry in your garage, but then mentions dehydrators,  and even just putting in your oven IF it has a pilot and that would be enough heat to dry it, and smoking, but I think it says toi  put it in the smoker around 90 to 100 degrees

 

[alblancher]

HeHe

We've had 10 straight days of humidity over 95 percent down here,  one day about a month ago it got below 80 percent but kicked right back up to the 90s.  Air drying is not something we do.  Personally I find Ryteck to be pretty dated.  Informative and interesting but dated.  I read Rhyteck for inspiration and  newer publications for accuracy.

 

[grabber]

I adjusted his 3 lbs. recipe for 5 lbs. of ground venison or 90/10 beef.  I agree with the 1 tsp.of #1 per 5 lbs. of meat.  Instead of smoking, I add 1 tsp., no more, of liquid smoke to the mixture.  Gives it a hint of smoke flavor with less work.  

 

[graystratcat]

I'd like to thank you all for the feedback and info. The discussion here has been a very informative and again shows how the SMF community is a great source of reference and supports intellectual exchange. 

So to summarize, if I may,  enough data has been presented to support that staying with my 1 TSP of Cure #1 per 5 pounds of whole muscle jerky that will be wet marinated/cured and then smoked is an acceptable practice.  And, getting the jerky to 160* at some time during the smoke would also be warranted.

-Salt

 

[chef jimmyj]

I'd like to thank you all for the feedback and info. The discussion here has been a very informative and again shows how the SMF community is a great source of reference and supports intellectual exchange. 

So to summarize, if I may,  enough data has been presented to support that staying with my 1 TSP of Cure #1 per 5 pounds of whole muscle jerky that will be wet marinated/cured and then smoked is an acceptable practice.  And, getting the jerky to 160* at some time during the smoke would also be warranted.

-Salt

Yes...The 160*F comes into play because there are some Bacteria that if Heated Slowly and given enough Time will form Spores that can survive Heating and Drying and can  then make you sick...This is more critical with Game Jerky because the Kill Shot and Gutting frequently breaks the Digestive Tract and contaminates the meat...It is then Hung at less than refrigeration temperatures and these Bacteria multiply rapidly...JJ