Oops, left meat out

[chef jimmyj]

Oh well some folks just don't get it! We are here to share our love of Q and the ART and Science that goes into it. We don't tolerate people that post comments or info that is dangerous to the health of our members and their loved ones...It's the>>>

...JJ

 

[woodman3]

Oh well some folks just don't get it! We are here to share our love of Q and the ART and Science that goes into it. We don't tolerate people that post comments or info that is dangerous to the health of our members and their loved ones...It's the>>>:rules: ...JJ

I couldn't have said it better. Thank you for chiming in.

Mike

 

[hillbillyrkstr]

Where's the guy who said he'd be back to eat some crow if he was proved wrong???

M-fine what's your take on the latest developments posted?

By the way I wouldn't eat that meat period. But I'm kinda weird like that. I have a pretty strict 3 day rule on leftovers in the fridge.

 

[atomicsmoke]

I am not offering my 2c on the topic - only replying to the following quote since the thread where it was originally posted is locked ( "curing without preservatives")

Quote:
This treatment does inactivate any pre-formed toxin in food; however, due to the serious nature of botulism, if you have reason to believe a food could be contaminated you should not eat it.
End of quote
_--------------
CDC is talking at both ends. Here is a paragraph from the page you linked to:

"Despite its extreme potency, botulinum toxin is easily destroyed. Heating to an internal temperature of 85°C for at least 5 minutes will decontaminate affected food or drink."

And another one


"Because botulinum toxin is destroyed by high temperatures, persons who eat home-canned foods should consider boiling the food for 10 minutes before eating it to ensure safety."

Also please keep in mind the difference between food suspected of botulism contamination (for instance a recalled product) and food that was at some point at risk of contamination. Clearly you are not going to cook/eat a recalled item. However you cook and eat all the time food that was at (extremely low) risk of contamination:
- cryovac meats that are in open refrigerated display at the supermarket. Touch the outside of the package and feel how cold it is. It's not.
- game meats.
- meats from slaughter houses and meat packers with less than perfect hygiene. So many of those and we have no clue. We simply don't get sick because we cook the food we buy from them.

One should also COOK and DISCARD food suspected of botulism contamination. Not just discard.

 

[daveomak]

Atomicsmoke......... Read post 19........ They replied to a question about that very subject.....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So if the above is fact why would they say this when sent an email asking about the subject??

Original Message
[rule]From: [[email protected]]

Sent: 6/27/2014 5:10 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: CDC-INFO: Inquiry


Subject: Botulism: Control Measures Overview for Clinicians


Other: [othersubject]


From: General Public


Email Address: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Your Question: In the above mentioned "overview"... ?Despite its extreme potency, botulinum toxin is easily destroyed. Heating to an internal temperature of 85°C for at least 5 minutes will decontaminate affected food or drink. ....

Does this treatment of botulinium infected food, make it safe for human consumption...


Thanks for your time.... xxxxxxx xxxxxxx


Optional Information


Contact: [name], [title], [companyorganization]



ref:_00DU0YCBU._500U0CnQkl:ref


Reply below


[email protected]



Thank you for your inquiry to CDC-INFO. Your request for information on botulism control measures was forwarded to subject-matter experts at the CDC. We hope you find their response helpful.


Hello,

This treatment does inactivate any pre-formed toxin in food; however, due to the serious nature of botulism, if you have reason to believe a food could be contaminated you should not eat it.


Regards,

Centers for Diseases Control and Prevention


Links to nonfederal organizations are provided as a service. Links are not an endorsement of these organizations or their programs by CDC or the federal government. CDC is not responsible for the content of organization websites found at these links.


Thank you for contacting CDC-INFO. For more information, please call 1-800-CDC-INFO (800-232-4636), visit www.cdc.gov and click on “Contact CDC-INFO,” or go to www.cdc.gov/info. This e-mail is being sent from an unmonitored mailbox and CDC-INFO will not respond. If you have questions or comments, please send them via our online form at www.cdc.gov/info.


CDC-INFO is a service of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). This service is provided by Verizon and its subcontractors under the Networx Universal contract to CDC and ATSDR.
[rule]Thank you.


D.H.



I think this part pretty much covers it 

"due to the serious nature of botulism, if you have reason to believe a food could be contaminated you should not eat it."

 

 

[atomicsmoke]

Atomicsmoke......... Read post 19........ They replied to a question about that very subject.....
_-----------_-------

My post was a reply to post 19. The email CDC sent contradicts the information posted on their own website.

 

[chef jimmyj]

The CDC gives the facts. The Toxin that causes Botulism is destroyed at cooking temps, 185°F or higher...BUT...The CDC has no way of telling if somebody will open a poorly sealed jar of Home Canned Tomatoes or a Puffy Can of Jalapenos and make uncooked Salsa or a Salad out of it. Not to mention, How many people suspect some food item is spoiled and Taste It!!! A TEASPOON of toxin laden can juices can kill you...So making the general recommendation, " if you have reason to believe a food could be contaminated you should not eat it."  is not " talking at both ends ", it's Prudent!

Regarding the issue of other food being contaminated, warm cryovac packs, dirty butcher's and work areas... 

I have posted this before...There are many foods that are contaminated and in general any Single issue, in the Danger Zone just over 2 hours, inserting a Therm Probe in raw cold meat, taking 5-6 hours to get above 140°F, Etc. Rarely causes a problem and is no reason to toss meat out...IF and only IF  these issues are followed by cooking or smoking to Internal Temps of 140° or higher, Without Further Incident!... It is when more than One mistake is made or multiple things go wrong that Food Poisoning will bite you in the Butt! Pun intended...

A case in point...http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/165100/spoiled-beef-jerky#post_1202398

Mistake One...Having SLICED meat sit in the Trunk for several hours. This is no different than Ground Meat in terms of possible contamination.

Mistake Two...Ignoring the fact that it turned Brown and Smelled Bad! 

Mistake Three...Making JERKY out of it. It was not cooked to sufficient temps to even destroy Botulinum Toxin. 185°F. 

Multiple mistakes and you get Sick or worse!

  ...JJ

 

[atomicsmoke]

I give up. I was trying to make some sense out of the mess CDC created, yet with every post the same information is regurgitated.

 

[rtbbq2]

It seems simple to me. If the food was left out over night...THROW IT AWAY OR RISK FOOD BORN ILLNESS!....

.....RTBBQ...

 

[frosty]

Thanks Piney!

"due to the serious nature of botulism, if you have reason to believe a food could be contaminated you should not eat it."

Simply, I cannot guess.

My experience is that my (perfectly healthy) sister went to the emergency room, and spent $3,600(USD), half a day there, and 3 days recuperating at home after the same scenario.  She has completely changed her mind about thawing food, and how it is done.  Seeing her there, sealed the deal for me.

I mentioned this to her last night, and heard "the lecture" again for the umpteenth time.

To each of you, Good Luck!

 

[iashane]

I apologize for it seeming like I posted and then bailed on this thread. I had a whirlwind past week or more with a long distance death in the family and the necessary trip that went along with it.

we did not end up eating the meat. I appreciate everyone's spirited input. thanks all!