New Preamble To The Constitution‏

Discussion in 'Messages for All Guests and Members' started by kookie, Sep 27, 2009.

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  1. kookie

    kookie Master of the Pit OTBS Member

     
  2. garyt

    garyt Smoking Fanatic

    I always came here to avoid politics
     
  3. mballi3011

    mballi3011 Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    That is one of the smartest e-mails that I have seen in along time. I believe if we could get all them a-holes in Washington to adopt this thing or leave that would be nice too. Maybe we could get some nice hard working men and women to take their place that would just hunky dorie with me too. We need some one with the Gahonna's to take a stand and lead us folks back to the way we used to live. Things were alot better when we were growning up and Mom knew where you were because other people cared about themselves and their neighbors. I better stop or this could be a really long post. Thanks Kookie
     
  4. kookie

    kookie Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    I didn't post it really as a political thing. I posted as more of a common sense thing. Because it seems to me that common sense is something that our country has lost. People need to start taking responsablity for their actions and not blame them on someone else or expect someone else to fix their mistakes. I am all for help others out, but they also need to want to help theirselfs out too. It reminds me of the old saying "You can take a horse to the watering hole, but you can't make them drink."
     
  5. meat hunter

    meat hunter Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    Im with ya Kookie. Unfortunately, common sense is not common.....
     
  6. hemi

    hemi Smoking Fanatic

    [​IMG][​IMG].. Hemi..
     
  7. desertlites

    desertlites Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    thumbs up Kookie
     
  8. alx

    alx Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Article 2[​IMG]

    Very nice read.....
     
  9. charlied20

    charlied20 Fire Starter SMF Premier Member

    [​IMG]I only wish that this could be the way that all people looked at the oportunities in this country!!! [​IMG]
     
  10. got14u

    got14u Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    LMAO...exactly what popped in my head....nice post..good points in it
     
  11. beer-b-q

    beer-b-q Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Current Constitution:
    Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
     
  12. coyote-1

    coyote-1 Smoking Fanatic

    Historical notes on Article XI:

    IN GOD WE TRUST first found its way onto U.S. coin in 1864. Its use has not been continuous - for example it disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until 1938.

    It was not a national motto until 1956**, and only first appeared on paper currency in 1957.

    Nowhere does it appear in the Declaration of Independence, nor in the Constitution or its Amendments. In fact the Founders were careful to NOT include such in the Constitution, as they'd just separated themselves via protracted war from a nation that declared specific allegiance to the one true God. And the majority of the most consequential Founders were deists, not worshippers of any particular God. If they "trusted God", why stage a Revolution? Why not let God handle things?


    Sorry folks. But if you're gonna post things like that silly chain email as expressions of your belief, I'm allowed to post facts relevant to it - even if they don't necessarily agree with your sentiments. If y'all want to create a new Preamble you're gonna have to stage a new Constitutional Convention. That is, if you're sooo eager to change our nation's history and heritage....


    **This was a direct reaction to the Red Menace.
     
  13. 3montes

    3montes Master of the Pit OTBS Member

  14. bmudd14474

    bmudd14474 Smoking Guru Staff Member Administrator Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Since we are on a history lesson. One of the first found references of the motto “In God We Trust” is heard in the U.S. National Anthem, The Star-Spangled Banner. The song was written by Francis Scott Key in 1814 and later adopted as the national anthem. In the last stanza Key writes a variation of the phrase: “...And this be our motto: In God is our trust. And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave, O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.” The words were shortened to In God We Trust and first applied to U.S. coins in 1864.

    President Thomas Jefferson wrote, "The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time" and asked ‘Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are of God?’"

    This can be debated all day because there is a lot of history and to say that our founding fathers did believe in one god is a assumption that I thing is a little bold. In this time frame Christianity in England was pretty big and these men and women came from this environment.

    As for you statement about why have a revolution if you believe in god and just let him take care of it. This statement in my opinion is the biggest problem with alot of Non-believers. They believe that by believing in God he will GIVE you everything. If you are given the ability to be athletic its not 100% that you will be a sports star. You have to make the right choices in order to maximize that gift. God gives everyone free will and because of this that is why people can choose to believe or not believe. That is up to them. My point it God gives certain things to you but will not do everything for you. Its not a hand out.


    Just like everyone here I have my belief and opinions. I try to keep them to myself for the most part because I do not want to offend anyone.
     
  15. got14u

    got14u Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    All tho I agree with most everything you posted this caught my eye. I think this statement is what is the major problem with christians in general. We don't want to offend anyone...well when you believe in something or you know something is right, it shouldn't matter if you offend anyone. I am offended all the time but that is fine. Me having my beliefs putts me in a position to be offended. But I will not sit back and let things go just because I might offend some one....any ways I'm sure this is on it's way to getting locked or deleted. just had to get my .02 in..
    and for your reading plessures
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Historical examples of this nation’s practice of acknowledging God of the Holy Bible in the every day affairs of men and The American Government[/font]:[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• Christopher Columbus’ commission to sail westward to discover new continents and islands, “by God’s assistance”.[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• The first colonial grant to Sir Walters Raleigh in 1584 authorizing him to erect statues of the government of the proposed colony provided that “they be not against the true Christian faith...”[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• The first charter to Virginia granted in 1606, “...for the Furtherance of so, noble work...In propagating of Christian religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God...[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• The Mayflower Compact which was “...undertaken for the glory of God and advancement of Christian Faith...”[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• The Declaration of Independence wherein the people of the United States appealed to “Supreme Judge of the World”, acknowledges that the “Creator” endowed all men with certain unalienable rights;[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]• The prefatory words of all wills, “In the name of God, amen.”;[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Supreme Court ruled in 1892 that “this is a religious nation” [Citing Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, 143 U.S. 457]. It reiterated this holding more recently (1951), when it stated: “We are a Religious People whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.” [Citing Zoredi vs. Clausen, 343 U.S. 306].[/font]

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]During the Presidency of Abraham Lincoln, the Congress passed the act of April 22, 1864 directing that the inscriptions “In God we Trust” be placed on our coins. This avowal of faith has been imprinted on billions and billions of coins during the last 90 years. This is a national motto, which also appears over the doorway of the United States Senate Chambers. It would therefore certainly be a very appropriate display of our American heritage in all government buildings and institutions nationwide.[/font]

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are virtually endless examples of God interwoven in our American history, so much so, it would be negligence of duty if such references were deleted or censored from our historical documents and our history. Rewriting the history of our country for individual special interest or convenience, would be like cutting the roots off a tree; it will die.[/font]
    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Perhaps this reflects part of our country’s problems today. A much higher percentage of the population is incarcerated today, than at any other time in the entire history of our country.[/font]

    [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is extremely disingenuous to censor our true American history in any way, for any reason whatsoever. A number of court cases clearly support foundation Christian displays in public buildings and properties, such as Lynch vs. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668, 678 (1984), Anderson vs. Salt Lake City Corps., 475.2d29 (10th Cin. 1972) and State vs. Freedom from Religion Foundation, 898 p.2d 1013 (Colo. 1995) cert. Denied, 1165.et. 909 (1996), for example, all allowed the display of the Ten Commandments, (the foundation of America and British Law) if they are displayed together with other historic secular depicting items, such as the Magna Carte, The Bill Of Rights, The Declaration Of Independence and The Constitution, etc.,are clearly not a violation of the Establishment Clause.[/font]
     
  16. coyote-1

    coyote-1 Smoking Fanatic

    Ummm... all these things predate the American Government.
    Furthermore, Holy Trinity was NOT describing an official Christian America; it was describing a common America where most people were indeed Christian, and therefore helping to lay a groundwork for claiming a foreigner engaged in Christian ministry was, somehow, not a foreign laborer. This decision is one of the earliest examples of legislating from the bench. Think of it this way: Most Americans, in addition to liking Christianity, also like tidy lawns. Since many Mexican immigrants are ALSO Christian AND they take care of our lawns, should they therefore NOT be considered illegal aliens? The reasoning of Holy Trinity is beyond preposterous.

    343 US 306 is ZORACH vs CLAUSON. Did you get your 'info' from another chain email?? Anyway, Zorach also is NOT referring to official institutions. See its reference to McCollum to understand... the institutions in question are NOT governmental, but private civil such as churches.
     
  17. coffee_junkie

    coffee_junkie Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Refer to article II.....
     
  18. got14u

    got14u Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    this is so far from the truth it's pittiful. almost 88% of the founding fathers where Episcopalian/Anglican. I would like to see one creditable record of any of our founding fathers were diests. and for the under lined portion there is a verse in the bible that you may know that says "faith with out works is dead" it's in James. You obviously have something against "religion" so do I. But I am a ferm believer in god. I'm not trying to get things all in a up roar. But I believe what I believe. As you do. Any ways here is a link to back up some of my statments and to prove that we "america" was founded on a strong christian belief and it definitly had a part in our country and government. http://www.adherents.com/gov/Foundin..._Religion.html
    Not even sure why this would be questioned facts are facts.

    Far from what a christianity is :Deism is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe, and that this (and religious truth in general) can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without a need for either faith or organized religion. Deists tend to, but do not necessarily, reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs, such as by miracles and revelations. These views contrast with a dependence on revelations, miracles, and faith found in many Judeo-Christian, Islamic and other theistic teachings.
     
  19. jaxgatorz

    jaxgatorz Smoking Fanatic OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I gotta say , I'm with GaryT on this one....And Kookie i know u didnt start the thread as a political thread... But they always seem to end up that way..Since we all know that we are allowed to have different opinions, it would be nice to see the political and religious points of view stay in their respective forums... At least to me it would...Too many times feelings get hurt and people bicker back and forth...Just my opinion and we all know what they say about them [​IMG]
     
  20. ddave

    ddave Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I agree. And I read Article II. [​IMG] And nothing in this thread offended me. And I agree with Kookie's original post.

    So there it is. Just reiterating what JaxGatorz said for what it's worth.

    Dave
     
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