my no foil half fail.

Discussion in 'Pork' started by cunnart, Jul 5, 2014.

  1. So I decided to do a no foil picnic roast. The AMNPS worked awesome and got a good 12 hours out of a full load. But I ran into an issue. The meat came out with a great bark but the meat was a dry and a little tough.

    Bone came out nice and clean and easy and the center meat was not too bad but I  don't think it came out as moist as the foil wrap I did a few weeks ago. I cooked the butt which started off as a 12lb hunk at 230, it ended up needing about 25 hours to get to 205. Of course I changed both the method and the type of meat so I'm not sure if either one of these were my failure, also the rub really did turn as dark as the picture looks. I call it a half failure since the meat has a great smoke flavor and is fine with a bunch of finishing sauce but I won't be eating it all by itself as I did my last one.  If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. If you need more info please feel free to ask.

    It couldn't have been all bad as the wife made us go out this morning and grab some ribs to smoke on monday so I will be doing a set of Loin back ribs on monday with the 3-2-1 set at 230.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  2. jckdanls 07

    jckdanls 07 Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    sorry about your half fail... but let me stop you on the loin back ribs now.. before you have a half fail again.. Baby Backs (also known as Loin backs) only use the 2-2-1- method.. the 3-2-1 method is for spares ...
  3. chef jimmyj

    chef jimmyj Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    I find Picnics to be somewhat leaner in terms of marbling and fat between the muscles compared to Butts. The muscle seems to be a little more dense, similar to a Ham as well. This may account for the drier texture. There are various factors that effect texture, age of the pig, how active it was and what the animal ate. Then there is the unknown factors. Why do two 8 lb butts both get to 205° but one takes 14 hours and the other 20? Your experiece here many just be one of those unexplained things, as it does not sound like you did anything wrong.As far as the Ribs, Loin Back Ribs should follow a 2-2-1 pattern rather than the 3-2-1 used for Spare Ribs...JJ
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  4. cool thanks for the heads up on the ribs.

    Good to know Chef JJ, I never considered that it might have just been a fluke piece of meat. I know they were leaner and maybe when I removed the skin I should have left a little more fat cap in anticipation of this.
  5. c farmer

    c farmer Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    With that being said, I have to say that I dont foil anything.

    They turn out fine even if you dont foil.

    Its all up to the cook.
  6. ps0303

    ps0303 Meat Mopper

    I used to foil but decided to do a no foil Thursday on two almost 10lb butts.  I can tell you they came out great!  It did take about 13.5 hours to get to 205 and then I took them off and wrapped for about 8 hours in a cooler.  When I unwrapped and pulled it, they were awesome. I think the cut has a lot to do with it.  Mine had some pretty good marbling and a nice fat cap that I left on.
  7. jckdanls 07

    jckdanls 07 Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    what kinda of temps were they after an 8 hr rest ?
  8. ps0303

    ps0303 Meat Mopper

    They were still steaming when I pulled them apart. I did check temps.
  9. Mine after 8 hours was in the 160-170 range.
  10. It was the meat and not the cooking method.   Picnics always seem to come out dry on long smokes. 

  11. cliffcarter

    cliffcarter Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    I cook picnics at 300°, as I also do butts, and have not had an issue with dry meat. If the OP cooked at 230° and ended up with a dry picnic maybe it was the cooking method.
  12. sqwib

    sqwib Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I'm with cliff on this one. Something is amiss. I don't think I could cook a dry picnic even if I tried.
  13. If you have any ideas I'd love your input as it kind of sucks to spend $25 for it not to come out right.
  14. cliffcarter

    cliffcarter Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    Did you cook the picnic at 230°?

    How long was it on the pit?

    I suspect that you cooked it too long at low temp and, at the higher altitude in SLC, it got dried out. It may actually be a significant benefit for you to foil as part of your cooking method, given where you live.
  15. I did cook it at 230*, have a maverick that I use everycook. The time on the pit ended up being 25 hours. I think you are right about the foiling. The ribs I did yesterday seemingly needed more foiling time as well. I wonder if on butts I foiled from 160*-200* then pulled the foil again to let it come up to 205* if that would give me some decent bark.
  16. cliffcarter

    cliffcarter Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member

    No wonder it was dry. It was most definitely over cooked, no matter the altitude at which you are cooking.
    I recommend that you cook at a higher temperature, 275° is what I recommend, with a water pan(filled initially with hot water, it's fine if the water runs dry). If you do I think you will have more success. JM2C. 
  17. I didn't find the time too astounding since my last butt took 16 hours for an 8 lb boston so 25 for a 12lb picnic didn't surprise me, seemingly followed the average of 2 hours per lb. My big worry was the AMNPS going out with added humidity from water in the pan.

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