I just saw Giada from the Foodnetwork...

[stircrazy]

You doing fine.

(2) Except when combined as ingredients, separating types of raw animal foods from each other such as beef, fish, lamb, pork, and poultry during storage, preparation, holding, and display by:

The first line to the comma takes care of what you are doing.
 

but doesent this cover the original topic of this post also?  she is combining ingredients, isn't she?

I find it funny that this went on for 4 pages when all that had to be said is that she needs to make sure that the whole dish is cooked to a min of 165 degrees and it will be fine.

Steve

 

[chefrob]

I find it funny that this went on for 4 pages when all that had to be said is that she needs to make sure that the whole dish is cooked to a min of 165 degrees and it will be fine.

Steve

 
She would be correct if she said the beef can be marinated with the chicken if it is cooked to poultry temperatures.

 bob did say this on page 2 or 3...................as i did a bit later.

 

[sqwib]

You may agree with it but you would be wrong in this case. 

Because you're cooking two different whole cuts of meat, the internal temperature is not important. What is important is the external temperature. As long as that meets the USDA guidelines you're good to go.

I don't understand.

I was under the impression that if 2 different cuts of meat were cooked together, that you would need to cook both meats to an INTERNAL safe temperature of the meat requiring the higher temp.

 

[chefrob]

i didnt get that one either...............

 

[ak1]

I don't understand.

I was under the impression that if 2 different cuts of meat were cooked together, that you would need to cook both meats to an INTERNAL safe temperature of the meat requiring the higher temp.

I haven't seen the show, but based on the OP this is my way of thinking.

Because you have whole pieces of meat, even though they're in the same brine any cross contamination would only occur on the surface of the meat. Therefore, once the meat was taken out of the brine and cooked, it is effectively being cooked separately, and cooking temperatures at the surface would be high enough to kill any bacteria. Also, given that the marinade contains citrus juice which is highly acidic, that would help in eliminating surface bacteria, and would also start "cooking" the meat due to chemical reactions.

Also, remember that the beef she was using is flank steak; a cut of beef that needs the marinating to cook properly. If that recipe was made with beef tenderloin, strip loin, sirloin, I may feel different about it.
 

 

[chefrob]

ak1 - i am by no means a biochemist but it seems to me if the brine would penetrate the beef, why wouldn't the bacteria as well? on another note from a cooking point of view, i would never start the cooking of the beef along with the chicken due to the fact that the beef would be more tough then at a lower temp. for the best possible outcome for quality's sake, i would marinate my meats separately no matter what they were (fish,shrimp,chix, pork, etc) and introduce them into the pan according to which one takes the longest to cook. by this method you can still have a 130 beef if it was marinated by itself thus producing the best possible product. i just don't see an advantage to marinating different types of meats in the same container form a safety as well as a product quality point of view in a saute environment. now if yer just going to stew everything in a pot for a long period of time then that is another scenario........just hold off on the shellfish....i hate overdone shrimp!

 

[ak1]

@chefRob.

From what I understand, the reason that the brine penetrates the meat, is because it reacts on a molecular level, it's a chemical thing.  Whereas bacteria are multicelled organisms that colonize the surface if the environment is suitable Of course the bacteria may release certain chemicals that do react with the meat, thereby promoting growth of the colony, but essentially it's two different things happening independently. Depending on how acidic the brine is, the vast majority of bacteria cannot survive, so at that point it becomes irrelevant what meats are combined, because of the environment.

 

[chefrob]

@chefRob.

From what I understand, the reason that the brine penetrates the meat, is because it reacts on a molecular level, it's a chemical thing.  Whereas bacteria are multicelled organisms that colonize the surface if the environment is suitable Of course the bacteria may release certain chemicals that do react with the meat, thereby promoting growth of the colony, but essentially it's two different things happening independently. Depending on how acidic the brine is, the vast majority of bacteria cannot survive, so at that point it becomes irrelevant what meats are combined, because of the environment.

something tells me that if i said that to my local inspector he would then proceed to tear my kitchen apart looking for potential hazzards ant then asking me to explain the whole process from start to finish.

also this point is still not addressed.......

 Because you're cooking two different whole cuts of meat, the internal temperature is not important.

 i do think you ment the temps are important, they just don't have to be at the higher temp. i still don't think this will fly with the health department.

 

[ak1]

something tells me that if i said that to my local inspector he would then proceed to tear my kitchen apart looking for potential hazzards ant then asking me to explain the whole process from start to finish.

also this point is still not addressed.......

 i do think you ment the temps are important, they just don't have to be at the higher temp. i still don't think this will fly with the health department.

You're right, the temps are important as far as the finished meat is concerned. I thought I made it obvious, but perhaps not. 

Whether it would pass Health Department inspectors is another issue IMO. Those folks have to look whether regulations are being followed or not. They do not have the option of deciding whether things are OK or not, but only whether regulations are being followed.

I'm guessing by your posts that you have a restaurant that serves the public. If that's the case then we have different issues. You have to follow certain rules, whereas I, as one who cooks at home, have the option to follow or not based on various parameters. 
 

 

[chefrob]

i thought it was obvious but i just wanted to close that part for further discussion in this thread........you know it would be resurrected sooner or later by someone.

as for the health inspector.......your right. on your last post.......your right again. see, i'm not here to argue just for the sake of arguing. i will state what i think and why, but just to clarify i ususally do the same at work as i do at home and i can gaurentee i have never gotten anyone sick in 25+ yrs of cooking profesionally and 30+ at home (i started early). also i want to be clear......my favorite way to eat eggs are over easy and i love a 120 deg prime rib cut from the center of the roast. the thing is, i pretty much only trust me to do it.

 

[ak1]

i thought it was obvious but i just wanted to close that part for further discussion in this thread........you know it would be resurrected sooner or later by someone.

as for the health inspector.......your right. on your last post.......your right again. see, i'm not here to argue just for the sake of arguing. i will state what i think and why, but just to clarify i ususally do the same at work as i do at home and i can gaurentee i have never gotten anyone sick in 25+ yrs of cooking profesionally and 30+ at home (i started early). also i want to be clear......my favorite way to eat eggs are over easy and i love a 120 deg prime rib cut from the center of the roast. the thing is, i pretty much only trust me to do it.

Can I come to your place? You're a man after my own heart! A nice rare prime rib is one of the great pleasures IMO.

 

[chefrob]

absolutely..........it just might have to be at my house.

 

[ak1]

absolutely..........it just might have to be at my house.

Damn! Now you got me thinkin' about Prime Rib for supper tomorrow night. I guess I'll be going to the butcher in the morning