Experiments gone wrong

Discussion in 'Beef' started by patntamsbeef, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. patntamsbeef

    patntamsbeef Fire Starter

    So, traditionally, I could cook Top Round Roasts that turned out like this

    They had great flavor, tenderness and Juiciness.

    I have always Marinaded with Apple Cider Vinegar. It has never interfered with my roast flavors. The exception is if I am using a Marinade that tenderizes itself. I typically marinade up to three hours with no issues.

    I found some gadgets and tried a few ideas. I found a Needle Tenderizer. I felt it would put pores ito the meat for my marinades. I also bagged the Roasts this time instead of putting them into Plastic Containers.

    I also used a mix of my traditional brand and another my wife had in the cupboard.

    The Smoke itself I had cut up miniroasts as I was trying 7 new Flavor ideas.

    Here's the problem. The Vinegar flavor really came through and interfered. The roasts were actully too tender as well.

    The roasts came out different levels of doneness and I expected it as there was so much variety and not a lot of time to deal with some whileI dealt with Others.

    So, I am wondering..Needle or not? Marinade less time or not? Do away with the Baggies? Could it be the brand? Does Apple Cider vinegar get more Vinegary over time?

    Below are a couple I like in spite of the Vinegar. One is a simple Vintage Gouda topping and the other is more of a "Philly" topping

    The Roasts going onto the Grill... The Skewers are marked so I can keep track of the different Rubs/marinades.

    The flavors were as follows

    Drakes Rub
    Vintage Gouda
    Vintage Gouda Philly
    Pineapple Sake Teriyaki
    Marionberry Blast (Spice)
    Hoser's Whiskey Sauce
    Bayou Bourbon Marinade

    Marion Berry Blast


    Bayou Bourbon
  2. patntamsbeef

    patntamsbeef Fire Starter

    One other thing. I foiled the Roasts midway. Perhaps that trapped the vinegar taste????
  3. fourthwind

    fourthwind Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Never had a vinager taste in my meats.. I have added too much lime in a few. perhaps just too much vinager??. I dont use the needle tenderizers unless I am just grilling.
  4. patntamsbeef

    patntamsbeef Fire Starter

    I never had this before either. And I didn't use any Lime or Lemon. The problem is I changed several things. The Needle Tenderizer, The Baggies, The Brand of Apple Cider Vinegar and the Foiling.

    I suspect the Needle Tenderizer did too good of a job of opening up pores. Apple Cider Vinegar has always been my favorite because I felt it was flavor nuetral.
  5. patntamsbeef

    patntamsbeef Fire Starter

    Ok, I went back to the drawing Board today. LOL, why not do what has always worked? I feel I would never learn anything. Besides, new Gadgets need to be justified!

    The end results were lots better. One taster thought I had done Tenderloin Roasts and said, "Wow, these Tenderloin Roasts have great Flavor!". Ummmm... Top Round.

    So, No Apple Cider Vinegar this time. I needled and then Marinated. The Spice Rubbed Roasts were marinaded in a Little Lea And Perrins. The Marionberry Blast, Teriyaki Pineapple Saki, Bayou Bourbon and Whiskey Sauce were all just Marinaded in their own.

    I did get one new Gadget. Battery Operated peppermill! It even has a light on the bottom so you can better view the Pepper Application.

    I rubbed the Spice Rubs and Simply Marinated the others. Cooked th miniroasts to about 150 degrees and pulled. I mopped the Marinated Roasts towards the end. These all finished a little early and i put them in the Oven. Unfortunately, the Oven's Lowest temp is 170.

    The Flavor was excellent in all. The Texture was very tender. These were a little drier than I like though. It did get people to seek more Beverage. The Winery might actually Appreciate that, LOL.

    I am only suspecting the Dryness is due to the oven holding temp. I am a bit worried the Needling opens things up a bit?. Also, I usually pull my own at 145 degrees. I go to 150 with a public group so I am likely to get more doneness for those who like Medium or better. The other thing on the Dryness may be the whole "Miniroast" thing. They are pretty thin so there is more Curface area relative to inside meat.

    Pics at the actual Wine and Beef Tasting will hopefully come next week after the event
  6. oneshot

    oneshot Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    Why would you use a Needle Tenderizer?????
    Low and Slow Smoking will tenderize the meat.
    If you were grilling that would be different, the heat would seal the holes up. With low and slow you are letting all those flavorful juices drain out/evaporate from the meat. I would get rid of that Needle Tenderizer when you are smokin if I were you....
    Just my thoughts....[​IMG]
  7. patntamsbeef

    patntamsbeef Fire Starter

    That is a very good question and very valid point .

    I'm not sold on it. And I definetly appreciate the feedback. I am experimenting right now is all.

    These are Round Roasts. It is one of the few Beef cuts from our cattle I do much to as far as extra flavorings. The round tends to not have a lot of flavor. I liken it to a cracker where you are putting something on it. So, it is an effort to get these flavors into the meat.

    The Round is so dense that Injecting Marinade is really hard and doesn't feel like it is doing much. Might be my inexpensive Injector tho. Needling it creates Pores that allows the Marinades to get into it better and more uniformly was my thought.

    The results of this smoke were the Flavor and Tenderness were great. One Lady even thought these were Tenderloin Roasts. The Marinades and Rubs flavors did penetrate more. I will admit them being a bit drier. But not unedible by any means. Actually, the wineries and Breweries I am working these events with might prefer a slight dry as it promotes more beverage consumption.

    So, I liked the results on this last smoke except the Moisture. I have considered wrapping again, but am pretty hesitant. I may simply do more Mopping to keep the outside of the roast moist and keep it from drawing the internal juices.

    LOL, I may also go back to my original where I don't needle. I am looking to try a more Industrial Injector. Even if it doesn't make a difference, I'll have a new toy that looks really really cool!

    Again, thanks for the feedback. I have found that every bit of information I get has made me a better cook

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