Binder Question

Discussion in 'Sausage' started by old poi dog, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. old poi dog

    old poi dog Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Aloha All,

    What is the purpose of a  "binder" in a sausage?  I think I have read somewhere that it is used when smoking sausages. These would be soy protein and or powdered milk yes?   Thank you for helping me along.
     
  2. Great question IMO, I'm new to sausage making and look forward to the answers here!
     
  3. slownlow

    slownlow Smoking Fanatic

    great read, check out this whole website when you get a chance:

    http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/additives
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  4. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    You have it correct Val, they help retain liquid's that would otherwise be lost during the long smoke process
     
  5. couger78

    couger78 Smoking Fanatic

    Re: nonfat dry milk powder

    The store-box product found in boxes in most supermarket aisles is quite a bit coarser in texture than the 'powder' one can order from several sausage-making vendors. In order to replicate the finer texture of the latter, I put the coarser NFDM into my processor and, after a few 'bursts,' the resulting texture is quite similar to the finer powdered product. I then store it in an air-tight container.

    -Kevin
     
  6. nepas

    nepas Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Many types of binders out there.

    SPC

    Soy powder

    rice flour

    buckwheat flour (found in mkts, health food in clear package)

    whey powder (un flavored)

    knox gelatin  clear

    karo clear

    cory syrup solids

    fat trim from beef or pork
     
  7. old poi dog

    old poi dog Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    SmokinHusker, Josh, DanMcG, Kevin, and Nepas,

    Ahh..Haa...Thank you my friends!  I will get some of that NFDM at the grocer's and pulse it in my food processor. So according to the read above, for 5 lbs of meat that is roughly 2.25 kilograms, I should add no more than 67.5 grams of nonfat dry milk. 

    Thanks once more friends....[​IMG]
     

  8. The finer NFDM for sausage making  is different than the stuff for making milk, not that it won't, work but the binding properties may not be the same, personally I like to use the soy protein as it is just plain better for you
     
  9. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I use a lot of store bought NFDM cause I'm always running out of the fancy sausage shop stuff. it works for me, but never have done a side by side comparison
     

  10. Classification

    Typical Processing Treatment

    Undenatured Whey Protein Nitrogen* (mg/g)

    Recommended Applications

    Low-heat

    Cumulative heat treatment of milk not more than 70ºC for 2 minutes

    > 6.00

    Fluid milk fortification, cottage cheese, cultured skim milk, starter culture, chocolate dairy drinks, ice cream

    Medium-heat

    Cumulative heat treatment of 70 -78ºC for 20 minutes

    1.51 - 5.99

    Prepared mixes, ice cream, confectionery, meat products

    High-heat

    Cumulative heat treatment of 88ºC for 30 minutes

    < 1.50

    Bakery, meat products, ice cream, prepared mixes
     

  11. I have used it too Dan but I honestly don't think it works as well, here is a link I got the above info from

    http://www.usdec.org/Products/content.cfm?ItemNumber=82654
     
  12. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I never really studied it to much Harry, but I think it just comes down to proteins binding the water and fats. I'm sure the made for binding NFDM works better but how much better? One of us needs to do the side by side test. (not me [​IMG] )

    Thanks for the link.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  13. venture

    venture Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I use the soy protein concentrate.  The milk solids are not that much cheaper, are they? Although more readily available for many?

    I would be interested to know the difference?

    Good luck and good smoking.
     

  14. Well I just bought a big bucket full of the NFDM from sausage maker so I probably wont  be trying it any time soon..

     Poi Dog if you add your ingredients for your sausage to water b4 you mix it in you don't have to  pulverize the NFDM it should dissolve in the water
     
  15. sprky

    sprky Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Interesting info here. I too would like too know. Sounds like someone needs to do some experimenting, and post up the results. I would do it but I am not set up to do sausage yet.
     
  16. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I guess not all dried milk is created equal.. while looking for what the sausage maker suppliers NFDM had for protein percentage I happened across a manufactures site that offers dried milk products up to 85%

    http://www.hoogwegtus.com/en/products/milk-products/milk-protein-concentrate-85/

    I have used both store bought and Butchers & Packers product and don't remember any difference in the finished product, but I wasn't looking for any either so I may have missed it.

    One thing that's different about the product is B&P's is ground ultra fine (like cornstarch ) where as store bought is flakes the size of kosher salt. But like Harry (Big Casino) said if you dissolve it in your liquid first size wouldn't matter.

    [​IMG] sort of :)
     
  17. hoity toit

    hoity toit Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    I use non fat dry milk and mix all my seasonings with it in blender with some water and the Cure #1. Let it sit for 30 mins or so and then add to my meat and stuff right away. Has always worked for me.
     
  18. bhntr

    bhntr Newbie

    Hi Slownlow, (or anyone else that may know)

    Do you think there would be a problem in using whole powdered milk instead of the ingredient "Non Fat Powd Milk" Seems like all the recipes call for NonFat and none ever say just powd milk... Just why the nonfat?

    Leo
     
  19. bhntr

    bhntr Newbie

    Hey Big Casino,

    I currently have whole powdered milk (and not NFDM as what is called for in all these recipes) Does the whole milk not work in fermented sausages like salami of is it because NFDM is more available than W Milk?

    Leo
     
  20. bhntr

    bhntr Newbie

    Ever use whole powdered milk?
     

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