using cure with sausage

captrichc · Apr 3, 2016

ok so i have been doing a good amount of reading on making sausage and have been looking at recipes now for days. most are for fresh grilling etc. i would lie to make smoked sausage. no i have read that you need to add cure to the mix for smoking becuase of how long the cook process is. (correct me if i am wrong here). cure #1 for less than 2 weeks, and cure #2 for 2 weeks to serveral months on dry hanging.

My question is if you are making the sausage and then smoking th next day or same day do you still need to add the cure#1 to the mix?
also, is there a general rule of thumb as to the amount you use of the cure if a recipe does not say to use it?

I will take what ever information i can get. thanks . i will be making chincken sausage in the AM to cook the same day so i am not worried about using cure this time.

thanks in avance.

jp61 · Apr 3, 2016

captrichc said:
ok so i have been doing a good amount of reading on making sausage and have been looking at recipes now for days. most are for fresh grilling etc. i would lie to make smoked sausage. no i have read that you need to add cure to the mix for smoking becuase of how long the cook process is. (correct me if i am wrong here). cure #1 for less than 2 weeks, and cure #2 for 2 weeks to serveral months on dry hanging.

My question is if you are making the sausage and then smoking th next day or same day do you still need to add the cure#1 to the mix?
also, is there a general rule of thumb as to the amount you use of the cure if a recipe does not say to use it?

I will take what ever information i can get. thanks . i will be making chincken sausage in the AM to cook the same day so i am not worried about using cure this time.

thanks in avance.

If you're hot smoking it, no, you don't need cure #1

Cold smoking, yes, you need it.

It's been awhile.... if I remember right it's 1 (one) level teaspoon per 5lbs of meat.

captrichc · Apr 3, 2016

JP61 said:
If you're hot smoking it, no, you don't need it cure #1
Cold smoking, yes, you need it.
It's been awhile.... if I remember right it's 1 (one) level teaspoon per 5lbs of meat.

what temp is considered hot smoking vs cold smoking?

and that is what i read 1 tsp per 5lb of meat

jp61 · Apr 3, 2016

Here's one link of many on this site.

bfilipowski · Apr 3, 2016

Even when hot smoking cure #1 will change the texture and bring that cured taste to the party. If you're trying to replicate a sausage you've eaten in the past, it might take using the cure just to achieve that certain taste or texture.

For instance, in my family I was raised eating fresh kielbasa. Usually grilled, but sometimes I've taken the raw links and smoked them at 225. This gives you the same result as feeling, but with the added smoke flavor. This does not even come close to replicating anything similar to what you purchase at the grocery store as smoked kielbasa. It takes the cure to do a few things, first that rosy pink colour sets, then the small bits of ground meat firm up a bit and lastly that fantastic umami richness of cured meats.

I love both types and usually make half with cute and half without cure so that I have a full supply at all times.

Flip

foamheart · Apr 3, 2016

Bottom line, we all do it now simply for an added guarantee that the sausage we make will not get anyone sick. In 60+ years I am pretty sure I never bad anyone sick, not planning to take the chence now when we know how easy it is to protect it.

A friend who owns a meat company and makes sausages and has since before I was born, their family last years started doing it also. Its just cheap insurance. These folks are for real sausage and andouille makers, and before last year they cured the andouille but not the Cajun smoked sausage. Now they add it to their sausage.

We could dispute the need, but I am guessing that now for safety sake its pretty much and industry standard.

Thats why we, that includes me, now add a little cure to be sure. The same with jerky and other smoked meats.

grabber · Apr 4, 2016

From what I've read, once over 170 degrees, you're also cooking not only smoking. Over 170, the fat in the sausage starts to melt and break down. Agree with ratio of 1 tsp per 5 lbs of meat.

daveomak · Apr 4, 2016

Anything you put in the smoker should have cure #1 in it... Botulism is the deadliest pathogen known to man.... It's not worth the risk to skip it... 150 ish Ppm is what to shoot for.... 1 tsp. per 5#'s of meat or 1.1 grams per pound are the correct amounts to add......

dirtsailor2003 · Apr 4, 2016

My understanding of cure 1 versus cure 2 has always been that Cure 1 is to be used in meats that are to be cooked and cured over a short period of time. Cure 2 is primarily used for non-cooked air dried meat products or meats that require a long curing time.

Here's a few good link that explains the types of cures when to use them and how.

http://www.susanminor.org/forums/showthread.php?736-Curing-Salts

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/prague-powder-1-vs-prague-powder-2

grabber · Apr 4, 2016

My brother and I got into a discussion on why to use cures, when people have used only salt for hundreds of years and not died. I told him, why don't we still use horses and buggies, instead of planes and cars, the result is the same, we get to our destination. We use cures because we've progressed to better methods thru modern science to make things better, quicker and safer.

daveomak · Apr 4, 2016

edit...

foamheart · Apr 4, 2016

BGKYSmoker · Apr 4, 2016

I use cure #1 in all my smoked sausage because i have low starting temps of 130* I even use cure 1 when i make jerky. Cure #2 is for dry cure.

grabber · Apr 4, 2016

Agreed. At my age, the use of nitrates is the last thing that I have to worry about killing me.

LanceR · Apr 6, 2016

Grabber said:
My brother and I got into a discussion on why to use cures, when people have used only salt for hundreds of years and not died.

When folks want to make arguments similar to this one I like to point out that just 150 years ago as many as 1/3 of people died in infancy or early childhood, life expectancy was as much as 20-40 years shorter than today and just 70 years ago a minor infection could kill you. So why would we want to do things "the old way"?

Unless I know it's going from the fridge straight to the cooking process (whether smoke cooked or not) I use cures......

Lance

SmokyMose · Apr 6, 2016

I was just using cure when I was planning to smoke, but lately I've used it for "fresh" as well. I give sausage to co-workers and neighbors sometimes. I understand the nitrates go away with high temp cooking anyway, so why take the chance of making someone sick?

captrichc · Apr 12, 2016

Ok so I want to start out by thanking each and everyone of you that replied. In the 16 posts I learned more than I did reading all over the internet. Now this may need like a foolish question but.... do you use cure #1 with chicken sausage? Or is it only used with meat such as everything but chicken. Lol

Thanks in advanced.
PS. thankyou for all the links to the other pages here on this forum.

dirtsailor2003 · Apr 12, 2016

captrichc said:
Ok so I want to start out by thanking each and everyone of you that replied. In the 16 posts I learned more than I did reading all over the internet. Now this may need like a foolish question but.... do you use cure #1 with chicken sausage? Or is it only used with meat such as everything but chicken. Lol

Thanks in advanced.
PS. thankyou for all the links to the other pages here on this forum.

If you plan on makin the chicken sausage fresh and cooking at a high temp then you need no cure. If you plan on smoking it for and extended period of time at lower temps, where the meat won't reach 140 degrees IT in less than 4 hours then you need to use cure.

captrichc · Apr 13, 2016

dirtsailor2003 said:
If you plan on makin the chicken sausage fresh and cooking at a high temp then you need no cure. If you plan on smoking it for and extended period of time at lower temps, where the meat won't reach 140 degrees IT in less than 4 hours then you need to use cure.

Ok awesome. Same ratios as regular meat. 1 top per 5 lbs.

captrichc · Apr 13, 2016

Also with the cure #1 it says to mix the powder with water...... but doesn't say how much water. What is everyone's method of applying the curr.

using cure with sausage

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